Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

By textbook, should the officer have waited for backup? Yes. But now imagine the scenario if it happened a different way. An innocent woman is being strangled by her boyfriend while the officer sits outside in the car for 5 minutes waiting for backup. Don't even try to tell me you guys would be alright with that. I can practically hear the snide 'protect and serve only yourself' type comments already.

Did you read Nephlite's post that I was responding to?

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever to blow a guys brains out who deserves it. But remember, the primary goal of any police officer is to go home at the end of the night.

This is incorrect. Police officers are paid to put their lives in danger to ensure to safety of the greater public. They're expendable. Most of them come straight from high school and go into a miniature boot camp to become cops, are equipped with a gun and badge with a pat on the ass and off to duty. Police are expendable and easily replaced, just like military grunts. 99% of the time a dead cop is a better trade-off for society than a dead or injured citizen. This is what I pay for, I don't pay for Rambo cops with little to no training or effort exerted to protect a citizen and his property by will of force. There are countries like Great Britain where the patrolmen are not given guns. They have tasers and pepper spray. Guess what; they don't die, they aren't maimed by pets, and they still get the job done and protect the citizenry.

If police forces were better trained to respond, assess, and interact with their environment and the community this wouldn't be an issue.

[Celeste]

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever to blow a guys brains out who deserves it. But remember, the primary goal of any police officer is to go home at the end of the night. That's why we get trained to do things the way we do. It's always better to be judged by 12 than to be carried out by 4. Regardless of what happens, you need to look at the bigger picture. If at any time a priority call comes out, there's a response to it and then there's a problem with discretion. Discretion gets people killed. Uniformity saves lives.

But then you also have to look at people in general. Some people just don't have discretion. Some people just aren't confident. And then, some people just suck. I agree: killing an animal sucks. But in the end, an animal is not a person. Therefore, they are placed at a lower hierarchy on the scale of priorities.

You respond to a DV. You have a potential suspect ready to flee who possibly just killed his girlfriend and you need to apprehend him. You don't know if he has a weapon, you have no backup, and a dog is charging you. Where is the priority? Obviously the perp as he is the most dangerous person in proximity to you. What do you do with the dog? Spray and hope you hit the thing and hopefully incapacitate the dog or taze it. OR you shoot it, and KNOW you don't have to worry about it while you keep your eyes on the subject to make sure he doesn't kill you. Cops perspective? No brainer here.

Cop perspective is bullshit. I respect police officers quite a bit, really, but as was previously stated in the thread, you willingly became a police officer. You are to protect and serve. A part of protect and serve is to survive to carry that out, but your well-being does not come before that.

Why do I have to tell you that? We're not enemy combatants, we aren't your enemies. You are not paid by taxpayers to kill us or act unprofessional in the line of duty. And yes, drawing a gun upon arrival to the scene of a supposed deadly assault was an unprofessional escalation of the situation at hand. Nothing had even been established. First to the scene approaches someone who might possibly be involved in DV? No. With a gun drawn? Holy fucking shit. Do you grasp how serious that is? From one to 100%, no way can I accept that.

[Nephlite]

Well then! I suppose police officers don't have lives, don't have families, hopes, dreams, struggle to pay morgages and keep food in their kids mouthes and don't deal with real life problems like you do.

Being a police officer is a great responsibility and yes, we should be held to a higher standard. But its a job. 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. Of course my "9-5" is really 3pm to 11pm and my "monday - friday" is really wednesday-sunday. I never thought i'd ever be a cop. I didnt want to be one. Its a job I fell in to and just happened to be good at it. Ask like 90% of the cops on the streets. They'll probably say the same thing. If you want to have the attitude of "they're expendable" and "thats what we pay for" then you take your ass out there and try to put away one of those great citizens you're trying to protect.

Think you can handle it? Wanna take a run at a woman who just killed her 3 year old because she can't afford to put food in her mouth and stabbed your partner in the chest because she doesn't like the police? Or how about the guy coked up on PCP who just broke your arm and is reaching for your gun to kill you? Or, how about the 80 year old woman who called the police because her grandson raped, beat, and almost strangled her to death and now he's taking potshots out the upstairs bedroom window at cars rolling down the street? I remember them all. Every face and name. Every moment of every second of every little detail of every inch of crime scene. Think you can live with that and continue to still do your job?

Also if you think it doesn't happen in the UK, then you're a fool. Don't see it as much over there as there's not as much media as there is here, but their cops get killed and beaten just as much as we do.. I would say it's twice as bad there because terrorist cells hit their communities way more than here in the US. And only a small amount of their police forces are unarmed. They still have ERT and armed units if they need them. An english bobby is probably the equivilant to a security guard in the US and is their first line responders but they still have guns in their forces.

[Dimmauk]

Did you read Nephlite's post that I was responding to?




This is incorrect. Police officers are paid to put their lives in danger to ensure to safety of the greater public. They're expendable. Most of them come straight from high school and go into a miniature boot camp to become cops, are equipped with a gun and badge with a pat on the ass and off to duty. Police are expendable and easily replaced, just like military grunts. 99% of the time a dead cop is a better trade-off for society than a dead or injured citizen. This is what I pay for, I don't pay for Rambo cops with little to no training or effort exerted to protect a citizen and his property by will of force. There are countries like Great Britain where the patrolmen are not given guns. They have tasers and pepper spray. Guess what; they don't die, they aren't maimed by pets, and they still get the job done and protect the citizenry.

If police forces were better trained to respond, assess, and interact with their environment and the community this wouldn't be an issue.

Can't use GB police as an example since not many citizens have guns too. I agree that our police need better crazy people and canine American training too.

Maybe they need updated utility belts? More mace, zipties, and beef jerky and less exploding arrows and submachine guns?

[Nephlite]

I should edit the above to reflect that I didn't grow up wanting to be a police officer. I wanted to fly planes. Unfortunately I didn't have the academics and some medical shit disqualifies me from being a pilot. It's like one of those things where you pick up the paper and say "Huh, maybe I could do that." and once you apply, get in, and get in to the position, you realize that's exactly what you wanted to do, you just didn't know it till you tried it. Hope that doesn't make me sound too hypocritical.

Why do I have to tell you that? We're not enemy combatants, we aren't your enemies. You are not paid by taxpayers to kill us or act unprofessional in the line of duty. And yes, drawing a gun upon arrival to the scene of a supposed deadly assault was an unprofessional escalation of the situation at hand. Nothing had even been established. First to the scene approaches someone who might possibly be involved in DV? No. With a gun drawn? Holy fucking shit. Do you grasp how serious that is? From one to 100%, no way can I accept that

I never said citizens were enemies and you totally took what I said out of context. Other than "guns are bad" why is it unprofessional to use a tool that you have that was given to you with this type of scenario in mind? People have already said that it's better to go in than to sit back and potentially have a body on your hands. Is it what I would do? No. Is it brainless? Probably. Some of you are pretty damn hypocritical of this response saying that he should have waited, shouldn't have his gun out, etc. and still have the expectation of protecting you and solving your problems while limiting his response options so significantly that he could get killed and/or get someone else killed?

So give me the perfect response to every single situation out there. This isn't tapdance your way in to the bar while smoking a cig and slicking back your hair while breaking up the barfight with one hand. If YOU don't think that YOU can personally do some of the stuff you recommend as a response, then why would you try to tell someone else what to do in a similar situation? Like I said before, people suck. You never know what's going to happen. Why not be prepared for it? Why take the risk? You wanna die that badly, just go out and kill yourself now and save people the headache of hiring an assassin to kill you.

And to further make this a most ridiculous post to get everyone hot and typing really fast: IT WAS A DOG. It wasn't a person, it wasn't a kid wearing a hoodie. It was a damn dog. He didn't shoot the perp (or suspected perp), he didn't hurt the guy, he might have been a bit un-empathetic and pretty unprofessional in his response after the shooting, but it was a DOG. This isn't a person. Stop trying to bring capital murder charges on someone who was trying to save his ass over a fucking dog.

[Melena]

Reading some of these comments makes me think some of these internet tough guys would rather see 10 blue funerals then see a dog put down by a cop. That or we got some major trolling going on down here. Can't tell half the time if half the board is legitly anti cop and think no police force is the cure for all that ails this country or just trying to get a rise out of those who do work law enforcement.

[Denchi]

I agree with neph

[Gregorio]

Did you read Nephlite's post that I was responding to?




This is incorrect. Police officers are paid to put their lives in danger to ensure to safety of the greater public. They're expendable. Most of them come straight from high school and go into a miniature boot camp to become cops, are equipped with a gun and badge with a pat on the ass and off to duty. Police are expendable and easily replaced, just like military grunts. 99% of the time a dead cop is a better trade-off for society than a dead or injured citizen. This is what I pay for, I don't pay for Rambo cops with little to no training or effort exerted to protect a citizen and his property by will of force. There are countries like Great Britain where the patrolmen are not given guns. They have tasers and pepper spray. Guess what; they don't die, they aren't maimed by pets, and they still get the job done and protect the citizenry.

If police forces were better trained to respond, assess, and interact with their environment and the community this wouldn't be an issue.

Yes, I read it. And I agree with him completely.

"Society" is better off with a dead cop than a dead drug dealer/rapist/violent criminal? Because they're citizens too, and you're nuts if you believe that. Nowhere in any police officers contract does it say that we have to sacrifice our lives for a citizen. Have I put myself in danger for random citizens? Yes. Would I do it again? Absolutely. So you can think what you want to about what police are supposed to do, but the fact is that I think I'm more important to me than a random citizen, and I don't take unnecessary chances when it comes to safety. Also, I'm sure most departments say something like "everyone goes home tonight" at roll call every day.

Lastly, I'm sure you're well aware of this, but Great Britain is nothing like the United States when it comes to crime. They don't have nearly the population, drug problem, or violence problem as the US does. Your comparison is completely irrelevant. Oh, and you also have things like 4 officers getting seriously injured by 1 guy with a knife a few months ago because they don't have the ability to put him down with a gun.

[Gregorio]

And to further make this a most ridiculous post to get everyone hot and typing really fast: IT WAS A DOG. It wasn't a person, it wasn't a kid wearing a hoodie. It was a damn dog. He didn't shoot the perp (or suspected perp), he didn't hurt the guy, he might have been a bit un-empathetic and pretty unprofessional in his response after the shooting, but it was a DOG. This isn't a person. Stop trying to bring capital murder charges on someone who was trying to save his ass over a fucking dog.

Seriously this. People are just fine with slaughtering millions of cows and chickens every year, but as soon as a dog does it's game on. It's an animal, people.

Also I've noticed that people keep talking about training like there's unlimited time to get it all, and that the training somehow makes police superhuman. Most major city academy classes are already 6-8 months long + field training, and then once you're on the street in-service training isn't exactly weekly. It's not economically reasonable to spend an obscene amount of time training, plus money on more officers salary+benefits. Then there's the fact that you can't really train for every situation there is. And it's impossible to replicate the intensity of emotion behind a real event in training, so you can't tell 100% how you're going to react.

[hey]

Seriously this. People are just fine with slaughtering millions of cows and chickens every year, but as soon as a dog does it's game on. It's an animal, people.

Killing for food and killing because you don't want to deal with it are very different things.

[Gregorio]

Killing for food and killing because you don't want to deal with it are very different things.

Killing because you don't want to deal with it and killing because you fear injury are very different things too.

EDIT: Also, do you think it really matters in the dog/cow's mind why it's dead? "Oh, they're going to eat me. I'm okay with this."

[jmc]

Just a curious question, for those that have actively been following this story.

I understand the dispatcher got the wrong house number per the unknown 911 caller (which I assumed was a neighbor). The police said the incident was actually next door to the victim who lost his dog.

What i'm wondering is what type of area is this? Is this considered the "hood" in that part of the state?

I'm just trying to figure out how a third party caller can hear this domestic from probably outside, and call 911. However, the victim is outside playing with his dogs for a few hours right next to the location of the actual emergency but does not call 911 or even know what is going on?

***Unless the 911 caller was actually the domestic victim, then disregard the above comment***

[hey]

EDIT: Also, do you think it really matters in the dog/cow's mind why it's dead? "Oh, they're going to eat me. I'm okay with this."

Obviously not, but that's life.

[Ashmada]

And to further make this a most ridiculous post to get everyone hot and typing really fast: IT WAS A DOG. It wasn't a person, it wasn't a kid wearing a hoodie. It was a damn dog. He didn't shoot the perp (or suspected perp), he didn't hurt the guy, he might have been a bit un-empathetic and pretty unprofessional in his response after the shooting, but it was a DOG. This isn't a person. Stop trying to bring capital murder charges on someone who was trying to save his ass over a fucking dog.

True, t'was just a dog. Do I care about the dog? Nah. Not one tiny bit.

What I do care about is that, had the gun owner been quick enough to obey the cop's command ("get your dog"), he'd have been in the line of fire; that before even appraising the situation, the cop introduced a gun where there was none; that he started a dangerous escalation that could easily have ended up much worse for no reason; and, most of all, that other police officers defend his irresponsible behaviour.
That's some scary shit.

If you go on shooting anything that could be a threat, if you pull your gun anytime danger might happen, you'll be lucky if it's just a dog you "accidentally" kill instead of "pulling a Zimmerman", to coin a rather macabre phrase.

MF's words might've been harsh, but he's right in sentiment: that gun isn't handed to you to increase your own safety at the detriment of the public's... and if that's not drilled into your head in training, the training is woefully inadequate.

[Eurell]

in his version of events the dog was charging while the other witness said the dog was just barking.

Wha? Who said the dog was just standing there barking? Even the owner said he was running towards the cop in the OP.

Just a curious question, for those that have actively been following this story.

I understand the dispatcher got the wrong house number per the unknown 911 caller (which I assumed was a neighbor). The police said the incident was actually next door to the victim who lost his dog.

What i'm wondering is what type of area is this? Is this considered the "hood" in that part of the state?

I'm just trying to figure out how a third party caller can hear this domestic from probably outside, and call 911. However, the victim is outside playing with his dogs for a few hours right next to the location of the actual emergency but does not call 911 or even know what is going on?

***Unless the 911 caller was actually the domestic victim, then disregard the above comment***

Did they say it was actually the next door neighbor? I think they just said they think thats where the call came from. I'm actually interested in what happened at the actual address lol.


I used to live in austin, and pretty much everything West of 35 was decent. It's hard to tell exactly where it was from the video though.



As far as everything else, you guys are crazy if you think its a cop's job to die for you, or even worse, for a dog.

[Gregorio]

What I do care about is that, had the gun owner been quick enough to obey the cop's command ("get your dog"), he'd have been in the line of fire; that before even appraising the situation, the cop introduced a gun where there was none; that he started a dangerous escalation that could easily have ended up much worse for no reason; and, most of all, that other police officers defend his irresponsible behaviour.
That's some scary shit.

If you go on shooting anything that could be a threat, if you pull your gun anytime danger might happen, you'll be lucky if it's just a dog you "accidentally" kill instead of "pulling a Zimmerman", to coin a rather macabre phrase.

A.) The gun was originally pointed at him. I really don't see how being in the line of fire is an issue here. It's not like he shouted at a random toddler to grab the dog.
B.) Do you think pulling a gun is like a new trend in police work or something? Pulling your gun in dangerous situations has been happening since the dawn of police officers having guns. And every time an officer goes somewhere they are introducing a gun where there is none. It's not irresponsible, just unfortunate.

[Nephlite]

Just a curious question, for those that have actively been following this story.

I understand the dispatcher got the wrong house number per the unknown 911 caller (which I assumed was a neighbor). The police said the incident was actually next door to the victim who lost his dog.

What i'm wondering is what type of area is this? Is this considered the "hood" in that part of the state?

I'm just trying to figure out how a third party caller can hear this domestic from probably outside, and call 911. However, the victim is outside playing with his dogs for a few hours right next to the location of the actual emergency but does not call 911 or even know what is going on?

***Unless the 911 caller was actually the domestic victim, then disregard the above comment***

I've been trying to pull the zip code for the location and have gotten nowhere. I wanted to read the crime log to see if anything was there, but Austin's website goes everywhere and doesn't have a general "Crime Log". You can't even view the CIC on a mobile terminal for some reason (still under investigation?). The article is very vague in the details since it was probably written by an animal activist who cried tragedy for the killing of a dog.

What I do care about is that, had the gun owner been quick enough to obey the cop's command ("get your dog"), he'd have been in the line of fire; that before even appraising the situation, the cop introduced a gun where there was none; that he started a dangerous escalation that could easily have ended up much worse for no reason; and, most of all, that other police officers defend his irresponsible behaviour.
That's some scary shit

Gonna say this once and for all: No, he wasn't wrong to pull his gun out for this type of call because we are trained to go in guns drawn on this type of call. Always have, always will be and until people stop killing cops on scenes like this, it will forever be this way. The reason most of you aren't getting this concept is because of one simple explanation: you're not cops, you've never been through the training, and until you do, you will always think it's a wrong response regardless of what people tell you. Domestic Violence is the #2 killer of police in the United States, if not #1. How many dead cops do you need before the concept is grasped that it's just really fucking dangerous? Even if the officer waited for backup, had ERT and everything on standby for breach, there's STILL the possibility of him or other people in his squad getting killed.

Being a cop is dangerous, folks. Sad reality. Louisiana Sheriff responds to a domestic and finds the wife dead due to a shotgun wound to the head with the little 2 year old girl crying next to her mothers body. She radio's it in while her partner checks the rooms. Husband had fled after killing the wife but they wanted to make sure. The female Sheriff picks up the little girl to calm her when the dad comes back. Dad sees the sheriff with his little girl, pulls the shotgun out and aims. Sheriff tucks the little girl in to her chest and turns away from the shooter just as he opens fire, emptying 6 rounds of buckshot in to her back and head, killing her and fleeing without even stopping to check on his daughter. Little girl lived. Later, he's caught and arrested and said he would have rather his daughter died at his hands then to go to a foster home.

Lists goes on. You be the judge:

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...-shot-and-kill
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...ficer-killed-a
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...r-among-two-ki

An article on Domestic Violence by the editor of the website:
http://www.lawofficer.com/article/be...-violence-call

There are literally hundreds of these cases floating around. These are the people who come to help you when you call. If there were no police, what would you do? Vigilante justice and shoot em' up everyday? Then what kind of person would you be?

[Spoony Bob]

Not to make light of the cases you linked, but I got interested in what else might be on that lawofficer.com site and saw this front page.

http://www.lawofficer.com/sites/defa...ncampus300.jpg

[Churchill]

I'll just point out, since perm is back to being full retard, that no government agency considers their people expendable and none requires their people to give up their lives.

Working in a dangerous job is not the same thing as being required to die for someone else. It is always a choice. This sort of Vietnam era military mentality is the type of crap you expect to see out of someone who has never seen combat and from marines. No commander in the military would ever say or think that his men are more important dead than alive - risk analysis is always the number one priority for any mission. Our number one goal as a strike force was always to get the boys home safe, no other portion of the mission was more important and if that meant killing any living creature between danger and safety then that's what it fucking meant.

[Celeste]

Well then! I suppose police officers don't have lives, don't have families, hopes, dreams, struggle to pay morgages and keep food in their kids mouthes and don't deal with real life problems like you do.

Being a police officer is a great responsibility and yes, we should be held to a higher standard. But its a job. 9 to 5 Monday through Friday. Of course my "9-5" is really 3pm to 11pm and my "monday - friday" is really wednesday-sunday. I never thought i'd ever be a cop. I didnt want to be one. Its a job I fell in to and just happened to be good at it. Ask like 90% of the cops on the streets. They'll probably say the same thing. If you want to have the attitude of "they're expendable" and "thats what we pay for" then you take your ass out there and try to put away one of those great citizens you're trying to protect.

Think you can handle it? Wanna take a run at a woman who just killed her 3 year old because she can't afford to put food in her mouth and stabbed your partner in the chest because she doesn't like the police? Or how about the guy coked up on PCP who just broke your arm and is reaching for your gun to kill you? Or, how about the 80 year old woman who called the police because her grandson raped, beat, and almost strangled her to death and now he's taking potshots out the upstairs bedroom window at cars rolling down the street? I remember them all. Every face and name. Every moment of every second of every little detail of every inch of crime scene. Think you can live with that and continue to still do your job?

Also if you think it doesn't happen in the UK, then you're a fool. Don't see it as much over there as there's not as much media as there is here, but their cops get killed and beaten just as much as we do.. I would say it's twice as bad there because terrorist cells hit their communities way more than here in the US. And only a small amount of their police forces are unarmed. They still have ERT and armed units if they need them. An english bobby is probably the equivilant to a security guard in the US and is their first line responders but they still have guns in their forces.

Oh lord, why not just say, "come at me, bro!"? My brother beat me like a drum for 12 fucking years, and the cops in our area grew to like the bipolar piece of shit, so they'd shill bullshit out just to not have to deal with him. Yes, those bruises all over my fucking face? It's ok, they're not his fault. I should have simply stopped existing to coo the psychotic, yet charming piece of shit.

You can try to shock me with some of the worst situations you've been in or heard of, but it isn't going to impress anything on me.