Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Aragon of Odin]

They aren't just "AN" authority, in most cases where they're responding they are "THE" authority, and in most cases they're dealing with adults, not children.

The mentality of thinking you can disobey authority and not think there's consequences is what's dangerous.

[noblemountain]

Yeah, it's not like there is a huge mental illness problem in our society with little to no treatment for the majority of people. It's ok though, they aren't acting rationally, therefore aren't "people" and should be shot and killed.

edit: seriously...do you think a person in their right mind is picking up rocks and challenging the police? The person obviously has something wrong and needs help, not lead.

[Yuri-G]

They aren't just "AN" authority, in most cases where they're responding they are "THE" authority, and in most cases they're dealing with adults, not children.

The mentality of thinking you can disobey authority and not think there's consequences is what's dangerous.

The mentality of thinking that authority should be obeyed without question is what's dangerous.

[Aragon of Odin]

Yeah, it's not like there is a huge mental illness problem in our society with little to no treatment for the majority of people. It's ok though, they aren't acting rationally, therefore aren't "people" and should be shot and killed.

edit: seriously...do you think a person in their right mind is picking up rocks and challenging the police? The person obviously has something wrong and needs help, not lead.

I don't think anyone "should" be shot and killed. And how do you know if it's actually someone with mental illness you're dealing with? How do you know this guy isn't just hopped up on drugs and thinks he's superman? You generally don't when you're responding to a scene.

The mentality of thinking that authority should be obeyed without question is what's dangerous.

To question authority is one thing, but are you saying he was just "questioning authority" when he assaulted them?

[kuronosan]

I don't think anyone "should" be shot and killed. And how do you know if it's actually someone with mental illness you're dealing with? How do you know this guy isn't just hopped up on drugs and thinks he's superman? You generally don't when you're responding to a scene.



To question authority is one thing, but are you saying he was just "questioning authority" when he assaulted them?

No, we're saying he was probably fucked in the head and had no clue of the possible consequences of his actions.

I'm pretty sure if I knew a cop was going to shoot me if I threw a rock, I wouldn't be throwing rocks.

[Melena]

No, we're saying he was probably fucked in the head and had no clue of the possible consequences of his actions.

I'm pretty sure if I knew a cop was going to shoot me if I threw a rock, I wouldn't be throwing rocks.

Just because it's common sense doesn't mean everyone has it. I got blasted for saying something similar back at the beginning of the whole ferguson thing. You have a bunch of people who are young, think they are invincible and that nothing bad can happen to them and then they use incredibly poor judgement and it ends up worst case scenario for them. In fact I got blasted again when the kid who was pointing a toy gun at people in the park got killed and I mentioned that I was raised to never point a gun at anyone, toy or real otherwise I could get shot and I believe it was Ksandra said well not everyone is raised by cops and taught this. And a lot of this goes back to parenting. Instead of teaching kids there are consequences for your actions and sometimes those consequences can be quite dire, they just assume kids will be smart and not stupid.

[kuronosan]

And yet again you are proving the ongoing point that there is a startling downward trend in investigating a situation before you gun somebody down.

I made the point earlier about medicine and about how incidents are analyzed so that responses can be improved and so that mistakes are avoided in the future. That's not happening here. Instead, we have people such as Neph taking the alarming stance that it's totally okay to respond this way.

It's not. Sure it is, in self-defense, but the idea of "self-defense" is rapidly expanding to "I feel like I'm in danger" to some pretty stupid proportions.

[Hatedregret]

We should definitely not go quiet into that good night if we truly believe we're innocent. We should be able to talk with police and not be told to shut up and do as we're told. We should also not be shot for disobedience, though there is a fine line there since police do need to remain "dominant" in the situation. Being afraid and being in danger are two different things but I'm afraid a lot of shootings are from fear and not danger.

I just want to add that the idea of innocent until proven guilty is so far gone..... police now feel that every situation has to be met with suspicion and disbelief. You aren't there to be judge and executioner.

[Melena]

And yet again you are proving the ongoing point that there is a startling downward trend in investigating a situation before you gun somebody down.

I made the point earlier about medicine and about how incidents are analyzed so that responses can be improved and so that mistakes are avoided in the future. That's not happening here. Instead, we have people such as Neph taking the alarming stance that it's totally okay to respond this way.

It's not. Sure it is, in self-defense, but the idea of "self-defense" is rapidly expanding to "I feel like I'm in danger" to some pretty stupid proportions.

If they are pointing something that looks like a gun, you really don't have time to investigate. I posted earlier, probably about a month or so ago a bunch of fake looking guns that were actually real, including a modified super soaker that was a modified shotgun. In a perfect world yea, but if you point said gun at a cop, they tell you to drop it and you don't, you are going to get shot, toy gun or not. And that is common fucking sense. Sounds cruel but if you are that pants on head retarded, the gene pool really doesn't need you.

[kuronosan]

Again, the issue isn't whether or not the person has a gun. The question is how to actively identify a threat and how it pertains to your safety.

If the cops think something is a gun, they're acting on training. Eric Garner didn't have a gun. The 12-year old boy didn't even seem to have a gun (although I may be wrong).

[jmc]

If they are pointing something that looks like a gun, you really don't have time to investigate. I posted earlier, probably about a month or so ago a bunch of fake looking guns that were actually real, including a modified super soaker that was a modified shotgun. In a perfect world yea, but if you point said gun at a cop, they tell you to drop it and you don't, you are going to get shot, toy gun or not. And that is common fucking sense. Sounds cruel but if you are that pants on head retarded, the gene pool really doesn't need you.

With all do respect, if a gun gets pointed at me then there is no time for me to yell drop it.

Just like there is no time for me to try and investigate if it's a toy gun or real if it's pointed at me.

[Melena]

Again, the issue isn't whether or not the person has a gun. The question is how to actively identify a threat and how it pertains to your safety.

If the cops think something is a gun, they're acting on training. Eric Garner didn't have a gun. The 12-year old boy didn't even seem to have a gun (although I may be wrong).

No but Eric Garner did reach for the cops gun according to the reports that were released.

[Melena]

With all do respect, if a gun gets pointed at me then there is no time for me to yell drop it.

Just like there is no time for me to try and investigate if it's a toy gun or real if it's pointed at me.

Yeah i probably should have changed point to holding a gun, common sense says if it's pointed at you, you are firing which i agree with.

[Salodin]

Cops can't read minds, fyi. If they think you're reaching for a gun, they're responding as such, even if all youre doing is trying to reach an itch. Sorry, but c'est la vie.

[Aragon of Odin]

No, we're saying he was probably fucked in the head and had no clue of the possible consequences of his actions.

I'm pretty sure if I knew a cop was going to shoot me if I threw a rock, I wouldn't be throwing rocks.

Ok then, how exactly is the cop supposed to determine if the guy is A) Mentally unstable B) High on drugs or C) Just doesn't give a fuck? And do it all after he's already been called to a scene and assaulted.

[Acevalefor]

No but Eric Garner did reach for the cops gun according to the reports that were released.

Not to say he did not reach for a gun, but it is well established that "he reached for my gun" or "don't go for my gun" or "he has a gun!" are the magic words to authorize force. We have several stories of cops using something similar to that statement in reports only to be proven wrong by amateur or dashcam video. The one with the guy holding his hands out the window while the officer is screaming that he is going for his gun is especially poignant. Just keep that in mind when going off of police reports.

[kuronosan]

Ok then, how exactly is the cop supposed to determine if the guy is A) Mentally unstable B) High on drugs or C) Just doesn't give a fuck? And do it all after he's already been called to a scene and assaulted.

Better training. Obviously safety should be a priority.

Instead of being defensive, answer this question - if an officer has been assaulted but not shot at or with a knife, and the gun hasn't been reached for, and the suspect does not have a gun, is it okay for the police officer to shoot the suspect?

[Aragon of Odin]

Better training as in what? In that scenario you'd basically have to do a full psych eval to determine if it was a, b or c.

As to the question, there's way too many variables.

Is the assailant bigger then him? Does the assailant have friends around? Has the assailant already had the better of him in the assault? Is there any bystanders who would also be at risk? Is the assailant choking him at the time? What is the distance from the assailant to the officer? What was the original act that drew the police to him? Is back up on the way? and etc...

There's just WAY too many variables to consider.

[kuronosan]

Precisely. So why is the automatic answer to shoot?

[jmc]

Precisely. So why is the automatic answer shoot?

Since when is the automatic answer to shoot? If that was the case, there would be millions of police involved shootings a year in the United states.