Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

**Chun Liroy** · 2015-02-20 19:46

Have we talked about how the police officer who fatally shot a person who was in full compliance and asked and received permission to itch his nose, was acquitted and remains on the police force?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/in-fair...ting-1.2960995

He asked for permission to scratch his nose, Barnes said, and did it slowly, then raised his hands again. He asked to reach into his pocket for his phone; Barnes asked him not to, and he obeyed.

"He said 'I know if I reach down or drop my hands I can get shot," Barnes told detectives later. "I said, hey, nobody's going to shoot you…"

But Geer pointed to one nearby officer in particular: Adam Torres, who kept raising his Sig Sauer pistol from the "ready" position (pointed at Geer's legs) to aim at Geer's chest.

Please ask him not to point his gun at me, Geer begged Barnes. Geer even offered to come out and be handcuffed voluntarily if Torres and the other patrolmen would agree to move "way back."

Then he asked to scratch his nose again. Barnes consented. And Torres fired.

Geer, grabbing his wound, screamed in pain and stepped back, slamming his door.

"And I'm like, who the fuck shot?" Barnes told detectives later. "I kinda got a little pissed."

Torres acknowledged it had been him, and began muttering how he was sorry, and that his wrist was hurting. Then, unbidden, he told Barnes how he'd had a fight over the phone with his wife just before arriving on the scene.

**jmc** · 2015-02-20 19:48

Originally Posted by Melena

Here's another question. What sort of specific training. What's going to work to deescalate an issue with say, someone who is suicidal, is not going to work on someone coked out of their head, or suffering from severe mental illness. There isn't a magic button to push.

Verbal judo courses FTW!

Seriously though, I love my verbal judo course I took on my own time.

Extra training would be fantastic, but most towns are strapped for cash and most can't afford to have their officers go through extra training due to the overtime costs and possibly having to hire a outside agency to teach.

*edit* holy run on sentence. I'm not fixing it lol

**kuronosan** · 2015-02-20 19:48

Stop lynching.

**6souls** · 2015-02-20 19:50

Lets bring things back to St. Louis.

In dashcam video released as evidence in an excessive force lawsuit against the St. Louis Police Department, an officer is heard warning her fellow officers to “hold up” with the arrest until the camera can be turned off, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch is reporting.

The video, which has been held back since April 10, shows the suspect being dragged from a car, beaten, and kicked by up to seven officers while resisting arrest.

Lawyers for the suspect, Cortez Bufford, 18, released the video after filing the lawsuit on Jan. 22 after it was previously used as evidence to have charges dropped against Bufford.

In the video, police can be seen attempting to take Bufford and a companion into custody after receiving a 911 call about shots fired. As Bufford’s companion exits the vehicle and is handcuffed, officer Nathaniel Burkemper argues with Bufford through the car window before reaching inside and opening the car door.

As Burkemper struggles with Bufford, pulling him from the car, multiple officers rush in, kicking him repeatedly while shocking him with a Taser. According to the police report, Burkemper warned the other officers that Bufford had a gun.

Police recovered a 9mm semi-automatic pistol with four rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber from Bufford.

When officers attempt to get the suspect to his feet, an officer identified as Kelli Swinton warned them “we’re red now,” indicating the dashcam was recording.

“Hold up, hold up, y’all. Everybody hold up,” she can be heard saying near the end of the video.”It’s red right now, so if you’re worried about cameras, just wait,” before the video cuts off.

A separate dashcam video recorded what happened after Burkemper’s camera was turned off, with officers huddled around Bufford.

That camera shuts off too, leaving a gap of more than two minutes before Bufford is seen stumbling and falling once as he’s taken to a police vehicle.

A lawyer for the St. Louis Police Officers’ Association stated that the video reflects a proper use of force used against an armed suspect reaching for a gun.

Bufford was initially charged with unlawful use of a weapon and a misdemeanor of resisting arrest, but those charges were dropped on Aug. 26.

A police spokesman said the officer who turned off the camera “has been recommended” for discipline, but is appealing.

More on this;

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/c...56fb02459.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/17/us/off...uit/index.html

**Aragon of Odin** · 2015-02-20 20:07

Originally Posted by Hatedregret

That 89 out 100 is such made up bullshit. They're just taking the amount registered and dividing by population. That's dumb. Not only that, it suggests all those registered guns are hand guns or even able to be concealed which is also bullshit.

The data is just there to show you how many guns there actually are, sure the 88/100 is off, but the 300M+ guns isn't, and of the 300M, they estimate 120M to be hand guns. What I couldn't find was if the data included unregistered, or if those numbers are simply just Americas registered cache.

**Thunder** · 2015-02-20 20:12

Originally Posted by Hatedregret

That 89 out 100 is such made up bullshit. They're just taking the amount registered and dividing by population. That's dumb. Not only that, it suggests all those registered guns are hand guns or even able to be concealed which is also bullshit.

I mean, yeah, it's skewed if you want to try and predict the # of guns any single person has. But not really skewed if you want to compare the density of guns in a country. So it isn't exactly, "made up". I can't find any data out there that says we have less gun density in the US than any other country. That info was just the one that had another country remotely close that I stumbled upon so I posted that, to conservatively make the point

Still leads me to believe tactics in the US should be different when it's really easy to get a gun

**Andalusian girls** · 2015-02-20 20:25

different to the extent an American cop is 60 times as likely to kill you as a German cop ?

**Aragon of Odin** · 2015-02-20 20:33

Maybe the cops are more scared since there's 60 more guns per 100 people in America over Germany

**Andalusian girls** · 2015-02-20 20:37

3 times as many guns 60 times the police killings

makes sense

**Blubbartron** · 2015-02-20 20:40

Originally Posted by Aragon of Odin

Maybe the cops are more scared since there's 60 more guns per 100 people in America over Germany

Then those cops are idiots with a complete lack of basic reasoning skills. As we've already covered just in the past page, the overwhelming majority of Americans don't own guns. The hugely skewed numbers are caused by rednecks with arsenals (someone mentioned an extended family member with 40 guns). The best estimates I've seen for how many people own guns is in the neighborhood of 20-30%, maybe less.

**Thunder** · 2015-02-20 20:48

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

Then those cops are idiots with a complete lack of basic reasoning skills. As we've already covered just in the past page, the overwhelming majority of Americans don't own guns. The hugely skewed numbers are caused by rednecks with arsenals (someone mentioned an extended family member with 40 guns). The best estimates I've seen for how many people own guns is in the neighborhood of 20-30%, maybe less.

It's about how easy it is to get guns, ie the likelihood of the disturbed/angry/etc person who isn't complying making a move towards something and it being a gun

And actually, "cop" isn't exactly the job you cite when talking about the smartest people in the world in the first place. Aren't the barriers of entry pretty low? Don't blame these guys for getting the job they applied for

What do you mean by "best estimates"? Idc if you source or not, just curious

Originally Posted by Andalusian girls

different to the extent an American cop is 60 times as likely to kill you as a German cop ?

A german cop is -probably- about as likely to kill ME as an american cop is. Let's be honest, and keep the sensationalism out pls

But given german cops in 60 of the situations where the US cop kills someone... what are the chances that the german kills vs gets killed? I think if we ran those 60 scenarios the german would save more lives but die more often, too.

In math they say, "not all curves are straight lines" so it's a question of where inbetween "American" and "German" is the sweet spot for policing the US. And I think we're better off being

**Aragon of Odin** · 2015-02-20 20:50

Originally Posted by Andalusian girls

3 times as many guns 60 times the police killings

makes sense

Where's these stats coming from?

Does it look something like this?

In America your likely hood of being shot by a cop responding to a scene is 0.0001%, so in Germany it would now be 0.0006%?

Where as it'd be a 300% increase in the likely hood you'd be encountering someone with a gun from America to Germany?

I may be viewing this completely wrong, sorry if I am, but I'm asking is why.

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

Then those cops are idiots with a complete lack of basic reasoning skills. As we've already covered just in the past page, the overwhelming majority of Americans don't own guns. The hugely skewed numbers are caused by rednecks with arsenals (someone mentioned an extended family member with 40 guns). The best estimates I've seen for how many people own guns is in the neighborhood of 20-30%, maybe less.

The overwhelming majority of Americans don't commit crimes which police are called to either.

**Andalusian girls** · 2015-02-20 20:58

guns per 100 people in America 90, in Germany 30. 3:1 ratio

American cops killed 1000ish people a year past two years, German cops killed 8 past two years. after adjusting for only 80 million Germans vs 320 million Americans, 60:1 ratio

**Aragon of Odin** · 2015-02-20 21:09

Ok, but that formula doesn't give you the likely hood of being killed by a cop, it doesn't give you anything actually, other than American cops killed 992 more people then Germans did.

How many times a year are German cops intervening in a situation compared to American cops?

Every single situation a cop intervenes in has a chance of someone being shot, whether it be a traffic jam or a burglary, there is always a chance the situation gets escalated. So if the American police force responds to 500M situations/year, and German cops only deal with 50M(yes these numbers are made up), then I could see why there'd be such a large difference.

**archibaldcrane** · 2015-02-20 21:13

Re: who has guns

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...icleInline.gif

**Chun Liroy** · 2015-02-20 21:30

Ya'll still going on about that rock shit?

Can we get made at something even more blatantly offensive lol

**Acevalefor** · 2015-02-20 23:42

I feel the need to defend the family member with 40+ guns. He was a wood supplier for rifles and shotguns for 45 years. Most of the guns he has are collector items he traded wood for that have never been shot, let alone taken out of the safe. Because of his proximity to the gun industry, and my connection with him, I know at least a few dozen people who have massive numbers of guns that have never been used. They have them because they collect them just like some people collect books or coins.

I do not trust the raw numbers to give an accurate representation of how many people are carrying guns. It is an extremely small danger in police interactions, as others have pointed out. The fear of a small possibility that a suspect might have a gun and an even smaller possibility that the suspect is going to shoot you with that gun that they might have has been at the forefront of reasoning for training. Change the mindset of fear and even paranoia in the training and you will begin to see better results in interactions gone bad.

**FNH** · 2015-02-21 23:45

Originally Posted by Andalusian girls

guns per 100 people in America 90, in Germany 30. 3:1 ratio

American cops killed 1000ish people a year past two years, German cops killed 8 past two years. after adjusting for only 80 million Germans vs 320 million Americans, 60:1 ratio

This has less to do with differences in police practices than differences in their prison systems. Non-violent felonies in the US that would net minimum sentences of 5+ years get less than 1 year in Germany. American offenders knowing they are going to the hell hole that is the US prison system for 10 years(likely to die or contract an incurable disease in that time) is more motivated to try and fight his way out of it than a German offender that is going to a Motel 6 and even has the option of going home for the weekend. Same goes for Canada, where only murder and treason net you more than 10 years. Their sentencing is more lenient leading to less people willing to risk their life throwing rocks to get away. Reform the sentencing and prison systems and you remove the motivation for criminals to make officers need to be on the offensive. http://www.vera.org/sites/default/fi...-report-v3.pdf

**Acevalefor** · 2015-02-22 01:38

I know a guy who used to sell acid. He told me several times that it was worth the risk to shoot a cop if he was ever caught because he had a chance of getting away if he shot the cop, but if he was caught with acid, he was serving 25 years or more.

I don't know how accurate that sentencing is, but the sentiment remains true. He will risk a shootout with police to avoid excessive jail time for a non-violent crime. If his feelings about police interactions are anything close to what most drug dealers feel, that is a huge contributor to the violent police culture we live in today.

**Niiro** · 2015-02-22 01:45

Way, way, way, way, way

Spoiler: show

too much money being made in the prison industrial complex for that to ever happen.

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