Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Yugl]

Oh lord, why not just say, "come at me, bro!"? My brother beat me like a drum for 12 fucking years, and the cops in our area grew to like the bipolar piece of shit, so they'd shill bullshit out just to not have to deal with him. Yes, those bruises all over my fucking face? It's ok, they're not his fault. I should have simply stopped existing to coo the psychotic, yet charming piece of shit.
ever get pummeled by a bipolar person & get arrested afterwards because I happened to own a dull display katana and charming happened to claim I threatened to attack him with it?

Or hey, stabbing your partner? My brother slashed at me with a large kitchen knife. I tried telling the police that my brother had done it, but instead I got sent to a fucking psychiatric ward because my mom and dad collaborated with my brother to keep him out of jail. Police didn't care. Easier to believe their bullshit than mine.

I can attest to similar situations happening without pointing out which details pertained to my case.

[Ragnus]

There are countries like Great Britain where the patrolmen are not given guns. They have tasers and pepper spray. Guess what; they don't die, they aren't maimed by pets, and they still get the job done and protect the citizenry.

If police forces were better trained to respond, assess, and interact with their environment and the community this wouldn't be an issue.

To be fair Britain has laws in place which makes a semi-automatic pistol some serious weaponry for a cop to have over there. The most dangerous thing a person can own in that country is a pump action shotgun and that's only with a class 1 permit. Everything else that is allowed are either single shot or muzzle loaded. However, here in the good old gun obsessed USA, a 9mm is tinker toys compared to what a cop can some across in any given situation. While at my safety class I saw no less than three M4 carbines being used there.

[Cadsuane]

I'll just point out, since perm is back to being full retard, that no government agency considers their people expendable and none requires their people to give up their lives.

Working in a dangerous job is not the same thing as being required to die for someone else. It is always a choice. This sort of Vietnam era military mentality is the type of crap you expect to see out of someone who has never seen combat and from marines. No commander in the military would ever say or think that his men are more important dead than alive - risk analysis is always the number one priority for any mission. Our number one goal as a strike force was always to get the boys home safe, no other portion of the mission was more important and if that meant killing any living creature between danger and safety then that's what it fucking meant.

That mentality came from an era of total war game theory, yours comes from a professionalization of armed forces that can't undertake an operation without overwhelming technological and economic force and consequent unmitigated mass murder. That operational philosophy changed in western militaries after vietnam both because of a public relations nightmare and because there was no moral strength on earth that could command the necessary sacrifices in that conflict when it was so much easier to dehumanize the natives. Not by a long shot was it because of command having internalized the concerns of grunts, although now that they have carte blanche to do so, you do hear officers waxing on about it tirelessly when it comes to justifying burning the village in order to save it.

These are undoubtedly the opinions of someone who's never seen combat and that's sort of the point. One of the reasons why a military even works as a fighting force is because an officer can plan and order troops without having to stand in front of them. A general who had to personally participate in every dangerous thing he ordered would cease to give those orders. Ultimately military objectives and personnel safety are conflicting interests, but because accomplishing the former is the whole raison d'etre of even having a military in the first place, focus on the latter yields a cowardly institution manned by the procedurally entitled who bring impotent weapons to theatres of war that they have no will to achieve victory over.

And so it is with the police. Public safety and officer safety are competing interests, because an officer who considers personal safety his primary objective is more dangerous to the public, obviously, than an officer who would never compromise public safety for the sake of his own, and a police officer whose presence constitutes a danger to you is a fucking oxymoron as well as a coward.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

I'll just point out, since perm is back to being full retard, that no government agency considers their people expendable and none requires their people to give up their lives.

That's a complete load of shit. The prime directive for the cruisers and frigates in our fleet was to defend the fleets carrier at all costs, meaning if we couldn't shoot down or effectively deploy chaff at incoming missiles the CO had to maneuver the ship directly into the line of fire, sacrificing the ship to ensure the operational integrity of the carrier. The same mentality is placed across all branches of the armed forces. Being a police officer or in the military isn't a free ride to power via carrying a gun. It's a responsibility and your entire purpose is to put your life on the line for the greater good. You are expendable, that's what you're paid for.

But, I agree with you 100% about risk analysis and continued training. One officer jumping out of his car and drawing his gun one the wrong person at the wrong address not only put himself danger but the greater public. There are plenty of cases of innocent peoples houses being raiding, people being injured or dying, and peoples pets being shot. This isn't about a dog dying, this about negligent destruction of personal property and it happens far too often to chalk it up to some bullshit "protect ya neck" mentality. We don't need more cops fresh from barely passing high school and getting through some half-assed truncated boot camp given a gun and badge to prop up an inferiority complex, but if that's what the standard will continue to be then yes I place more value on a taxpayers property than a cops life.

And Cadsuane, my standing is from someone who has been placed directly in the line of combat between stand-offs with China in the Sea of Japan and boarding ships around the Philippines suspected of smuggling weapons to Muslim extremists shortly after the USS Cole bombing ( which as I mentioned before in this thread, I had a friend die and some were injured in that attack ).

[Cadsuane]

And Cadsuane, my standing is from someone who has been placed directly in the line of combat between stand-offs with China in the Sea of Japan and boarding ships around the Philippines suspected of smuggling weapons to Muslim extremists shortly after the USS Cole bombing ( which as I mentioned before in this thread, I had a friend die and some were injured in that attack ).

So he straw manned you and the point was moot anyway. I don't think your or his experience qualify you more or less to discuss the subject as much as you guys love to try on your lieutenant Dan impression.

[Churchill]

Cadsuane, I would actually say that your point is more true of something I have no experienced but even then you're oversimplifying portions of what happens.

General discusses intent with Brigade Commanders, Brigade Commanders discuss intent with Battalion Commanders, Battalion Commanders discuss intent with Company Commanders, CO's -> PL's, PL's->Squad Leaders, Squad Leaders to Team Leaders, Team Leader's to Privates.

I wrote the whole chain out because I wanted to illustrate how many different people are involved and that at each level, it gets changed. Brigade Commander says hey, this area is a problem, we need to fix it. By the time it's at the Company/Platoon level, they're going into the area, but a month+ from now after they've done medcaps in all of the surrounding areas and built intel. The Team leader level often never even told why they'd be doing medcaps and what the overall mission is.

Risk Analysis is done here to protect people, equipment, civilian casualties.

Our intent was very rarely explicitly handed down to us, and I wouldn't qualify "go out on missions" as Commander's intent. The people who send us out the door see us every day, go out with us often enough and face the same danger. Our priority was always the boys because there wasn't a single mission we would go on that would change the war. We couldn't win it in one swoop from a helicopter but you most assuredly could fuck it up pretty badly. We were never concerned for committing mass murder, we know that's not an option that will occur unless mistakes are made - something we don't often allow to happen.

[Ashmada]

Anecdotes.

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.


The point, and it has been reiterated by Cadsuane, stands: a police officer who preemptively shoots anything and anyone he considers a threat is detrimental to public safety, not beneficial.

No amount of muscle-flexing will contradict that, no amount of Hollywood-style sensationalism either.

[jmc]

Just wanted to say that if a police officer, firefighter, or even paramedic is not willing to give their life in order to save someone they don't know. Then they really need to re-examine their job choice.

However, I believe what neph said was worded poorly, or just blown out.

*edit* To also call someone expendable, is pretty fucked up. These first responders run into situations, where others are screaming and crying out for help..... But yet they are expendable, and not humans I guess. Just 3rd world citizens.

[Eurell]

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.


The point, and it has been reiterated by Cadsuane, stands: a police officer who preemptively shoots anything and anyone he considers a threat is detrimental to public safety, not beneficial.

No amount of muscle-flexing will contradict that, no amount of Hollywood-style sensationalism either.

The dog was running at the officer in a threatening matter. The believed to be violent suspect was also there. There was nothing preemptive about this. You do not wait until you are physically bit before you stop the dog.


Edit: I think neph worded things fine honestly, considering what he was responding to. Should a cop be willing to risk his life? Absolutely. That does not mean it is his job to die though. It does not mean officers are expendable. That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make. You can't keep the public safe if you get yourself killed.

[Gregorio]

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

It's not anecdotal, those are just examples. His statement is true. Aside from car crashes, most officers are hurt or killed in domestic violence situations.

Also, I still feel like Perm is blaming the officer for showing up at the wrong address when it has been pointed out multiple times that the dispatcher gave him the wrong address.

And now a taxpayers property is more important than an officers life? Wow am I glad your fucked up dumbass worldview is limited to a minority of internet renegades making a difference one BG at a time, instead of the real world.

[Stumblingdrunk]

*edit* To also call someone expendable, is pretty fucked up. These first responders run into situations, where others are screaming and crying out for help..... But yet they are expendable, and not humans I guess. Just 3rd world citizens.

Everyone is expendable.

[Xno Kappa]

Clearly it's time to assemble action heroes from the 80's to take down crime.

[Yugl]

Or we need one our resident BG scientists to take on the daring experiment of mixing sugar, spice, and everything nice.

[Nephlite]

I did probably choose some poor words there and I apologize. I tend to get caught up in the moment and I already said I'm an asshole.

The scope of the job goes beyond the words "Good Samaritan". Putting my life on the line every day is something I've gotten used to. It's to the point where saving a life doesn't even phase me and doesn't seem like a big deal. I've pulled people out of burning buildings, preformed CPR on patients, helped children who were lost/abused/scared/delinquent or in distress for a variety of reasons, intervened in dangerous situations like stabbings/shooting and put my life on the line for a complete stranger, and even given up my hard earned money and time to help homeless people. During Thanksgiving, me and my partner drove around our PSA giving sandwiches to the regulars and providing blankets to the new guys who moved in to the area.

Not gonna try to make myself sound like I'm the angel of the police world, but it's an example of what I'd like to call "Doing my job". I don't need praise or recognition for the services I provide. It's just part of the job. Just like if I need to kill someone, it's nothing personal. It's an (unfortunate) part of the job and yes, it does suck. But I don't just go on a vigilante killing spree and hide behind a badge to justify the means. If it came down to it, I'm going to fight to end it so that I can go home at night to be with my wife and kids. If it means that I have to take a life, then it needs to be done. I'm going to try everything in my power to prevent it, but sometimes it's inevitable. Why is that such a hard concept to believe?

I'll tell you why: Some people just can't do it. Some people just can't make that decision and feel comfortable with making it. That's okay, that's why I'm here. You can say whatever you want and try to tell me how wrong I am and how much of a murderer/baby killer I am but in the end, if it saves one persons life, if it is for the greater good and prevents further damage to a person, or makes one person turn their life around in some way to help them become a more avid contributor to the greater good, then I did my job.

Also try to remember that "Protect and Serve" doesn't necessarily mean "Protect the public, Serve the public." It was originally meant to mean "Protect the Constitution, Serve the Public". Protect the Constitution by enforcing the law and protecting all citizens constitutional rights. Serve the public by providing services to those who cannot serve themselves. People are people, just like the police are people too. It's an unfortunate flaw of humanity to be selfish and to preserve their own life. But in the end, isn't that what our basic fundamental need is? Strip away everything. The badges, the guns, the technology, and the civilization and what are you left with? The need to survive. The will to continue, to propagate as a species and to move forward. No one wants to die; we have spent the past what? 300 years or so trying to further improve the quality of life for humanity to continue as a species?

To say that my life, that every person's life out there who puts on that badge and swears that oath is akin to throwing away a paper towel is not only absurd, it also shows how you think of humanity as a whole. You say I should put myself in harms way to save a total stranger who means nothing to me and probably doesn't care if I die or not? I say welcome to the start of my day. I eat it for breakfast, and crap it out at the end of my tour. I live and breathe it every moment I rack that slide. Does it affect me? Somewhat. Do I let it control me? Of course. Do I feel bad for doing it? Hell no. Until you live my life, until you have done what I do, and until you make the decisions I make every day while cramming doughnuts and drinking coffee, you have no right whatsoever to pass judgment on me for what I do. When's the last time you helped someone? Pulled over to change a tire in the middle of rush hour because AAA is going to take 3-4 hours to get there? Screamed down 395 the wrong way against traffic in bumper to bumper shit storm to deliver a baby at the scene of an accident with two fatalities and an overturned with occupants trapped? Jumped in the middle of a domestic because babys daddy wants to kill babys momma for cheating on him and get stabbed with a pen for being a "good samaritan"? Child's play, kiddo. Hat's off to you, my good friend if you have.

[Xno Kappa]

snip

I feel sorry for the first-responders, honestly no trolling I really do, they basically have to deal with everything that went wrong in the case. Having said that they're still a liability, sorry, it's true. The majority of these cops are fresh out of the academy, and like privates in the military, can't expect them to do shit right. When they half-ass a response from dispatchers, give me half-assed statements from witnesses, canvass interviews are filled with nothing but bitching about the cops, and they fuck up evidence by moving it, it's clear a lack of training is at fault.

When I did my time I was literally not allowed to do shit significant until I was fully capable of doing it on my own and the way I see it, that's been completely disregarded with the last few precincts I've worked with. You got these faggots the second they get a badge they think they're Alonzo Harris.

I empathize with what this cop did to the dog, but he's still a dumbass for letting it escalate to that situation.

[Xno Kappa]

Not to intentionally double post but I've had one case thrown out because the faggot beat cop on the scene wanted to front and read him his Miranda rights when he body slammed the guy to the ground. Contrary to popular belief, you read them their rights when they're in the interview/interrogation room under custody in a nice air conditioned building of the said agency's jurisdictions headquarters, ready to talk. Not some bullshit street scene you see in NCIS: Criminal Minds CSI SVU team.

EDIT: Reason I bring this up is because the majority of people think protocol is what they see on TV. No difference then all the other stupid political nonsense. Law enforcement/military do a lot of good that will NEVER get published. That's the ultimate shame of TV, saving a baby gets no views when you got some retard slaughtering XX amount of Afghani's.

[Xno Kappa]

One last thing, the idea everyone is expendable is fucking retarded. Plain and simple.

[Nephlite]

Agreed 100% with everything you put. And yes, I love rookies as much as you do. When I was a rookie, all the lockups got pawned off on me and all the shit assignments I lived em. It did give me some great experience though and looking back, I can't even classify it as hazing really.

Escalation and de-escalation are pretty key to growth in the field and it's something you learn. Hard to teach discretion to some people, especially if they're fresh out of the pit and have no street time. One FTO I had told me that when you write a report, it's all about how it's articulated. You can pretty much talk your way out of just about any scenario if you're smart. I learned pretty quickly that it's better to not have good articulation skills and just have good skills in general so you don't have to articulate your ass out of a corner.

Too many times do you see bad stuff on media and suddenly it's a huge outcry. The fact that for every news article you read about police brutality and misconduct is a single instance in about 100 good stories and good deed scenarios that get played out at that exact moment, at that exact same jurisdiction usually, never even crosses someone's mind when they pick up that paper or watch that broad cast. People fuck up. It's human nature. No one's perfect and there will be mistakes. As long as the mistake gets corrected, why hang an entire community for one person's fuck up? Stop this shot-gun discipline process by punishing everyone for one mistake and just be happy.

[Cadsuane]

Another fucking five paragraph essay, "I have seen some SHIT man, you don't even know". A lot of you guys go through the effort of seeming self aware by pointing hollywood cliche's and then about face and say "I was just doing my JEEE~RB man" totally unironically and I can't help reading it in my cheesiest Clint Eastwood voice.

None of you ex military current cop faggots have a point other than that you're good at spewing emotionally manipulative anecdotal bullshit and pining for self-esteem alms from strangers who are too embarassed to call you on it. I feel like I'm living in Victorian England and my wife is calling me a coward for not enlisting to fight in the Boer fucking war listening to you poncy jackasses.

[Xno Kappa]

lol

My idea of the best action heroes from the 80's still stands on the table. Everything else is too plain and ordinary for BG, gotta romanticize that shit with epic gun shots and/or mistakes to make threads.