Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Yuri-G]

Unless you count civil forfeiture

Literal highway robbery, yo!

[Melena]

So, his actual age matters when it comes to whether he might be legally carrying, but not whether he's an actual threat. Got it.

A twelve year old has the same capability to pull a trigger as a forty year old. I just wouldn't recommend starting them with a full auto like that ten year old girl who accidentally killed a range instructor with an uzi in Las Vegas

[archibaldcrane]

The point is that if the cops are going to pull the "we thought he was an adult" then we get to ask "then why did you think his carrying a weapon required hyper-aggressive police action?"

[archibaldcrane]

Or, to put a finer point on it, this:



tl;dr black people don't have the right to open carry

[Melena]

The point is that if the cops are going to pull the "we thought he was an adult" then we get to ask "then why did you think his carrying a weapon required hyper-aggressive police action?"

It goes all the way back to the dispatcher.

Person calls in: There is a young adult or teen pointing a gun at people, i believe it's a fake gun though, can you have someone come down to check it out?

Dispatch: We have a suspect pointing a gun at various people in the park

Police: See suspect, suspect reaches into pants, cops light him up.

I fucking guarantee if the dispatcher wasn't a fucking idiot and conveyed the entire message that it was most likely a fake gun, the kid would still be alive. Way the person called it in, makes it seem to be much less of a threat than we have a suspect pointing a firearm at people that dispatch relayed to the police.

[archibaldcrane]

Police: See suspect, suspect reaches into pants, cops light him up.

are you purposefully fucking with me with this?

[dasva]

What about the other way around? If I, as an innocent civilian, fear for my life at the hands of a cop, should I have the right to blow his head off to be safe?

If that particular cop does something to reasonable cause you to think that then yes. There have actually been cases like this with cops doing things like no knock entries at night and the courts backed up the home owner. And believe me the cops were just as mad nothing happened but was his own damn fault. He made people fear for their lives and they defended themselves from the perceived threat

[Melena]

are you purposefully fucking with me with this?

Fucking firefox crash ate my post. But to answer, no. I'm trying to point out how with dispatch changing/omitting information from the call, you go from a kid with a toy gun to a suspect whose pointing a firearm at people and how it will change their demeanor when they arrive on scene.

[fantasticdan]

Last I checked cops are not running around robbing people of jewelry and gold teeth caps.

Are you talking about black youths?

Cops did steal my uncles TV once thou lol.

[FNH]

I'm aware that acting is faster than reacting. I'm directly stating that the training is wrong, and is contributing to the current fucked up state of our police force as a nation. Also, you forgot to mention that it's not "going to be attacked" but "believe you will be attacked." Things have devolved to a state where holding a weapon in your hand is justification for the belief that it will be used. Hell, in this very case we've got "he was reaching for a gun" as the worthless justification for shooting a kid. So what if he was reaching for it? He could've been getting it to throw it on the ground, a completely natural reaction. Whether it's "smart" or not is irrelevant if it's a natural automatic reaction. Cops need to wait to see what the intent is before they act. Yes, that means more cops might get shot/hurt. Tough shit. If you're not willing to handle the danger of a job, don't choose the goddamn job.

Tl;dr: "I feared for my life" is a whiny excuse that I only permit for civilians. Cops need held to a higher standard, and their lives must truly be in danger (active shooter/attacker with a weapon) before they should be allowed to use lethal force.

You would need to pay them a lot more to enforce that higher standard.

[dasva]

Are you talking about black youths?

Cops did steal my uncles TV once thou lol.

Wait this sounds like a funny story. What happened?

[dasva]

Yeah it is but it's obvious we disagree, especially since you were the one who said I was lucky to have parents as cops who told me not to point toy guns at strangers.

I thought everyone was taught this but maybe not?

Like neither of parents have ever owned a gun or every had a job involving well any kind of weapons but some of dads friends shot recreationally/hunted so I got a rather stern lesson on not pointing guns at people real, fake unloaded or not etc when I was 5... then got to pew pew a bunch of stuff. But it seems some parents don't though and we could use some gun safety classes?

[Melena]

I actually have a question for Ksandra and Blubb. This is an actual situation that occured in Oakland about 15-20 months ago. I'm curious to see if you feel the cop was in the right.

Off duty officer has his gun on him and makes a stop at a convenience store. While inside, two people enter the store. One of them pulls a gun on the cashier while the other acts as a lookout. Off duty officer draws his weapon and shoots and kills the person with a gun. The lookout sees this, and runs. The officer not knowing if the second is armed, shoots and wounds him and he's taken into custody.

Not knowing if the suspects gun was fake, or if he was going to shoot the clerk in the face, was he right in shooting first? I personally feel he was as there was a situation where an unarmed civilian was in danger and the officer had to make a quick guess on whether or not lethal force was needed.

[Byrthnoth]

I actually have a question for Ksandra and Blubb. This is an actual situation that occured in Oakland about 15-20 months ago. I'm curious to see if you feel the cop was in the right.

Off duty officer has his gun on him and makes a stop at a convenience store. While inside, two people enter the store. One of them pulls a gun on the cashier while the other acts as a lookout. Off duty officer draws his weapon and shoots and kills the person with a gun. The lookout sees this, and runs. The officer not knowing if the second is armed, shoots and wounds him and he's taken into custody.

Not knowing if the suspects gun was fake, or if he was going to shoot the clerk in the face, was he right in shooting first? I personally feel he was as there was a situation where an unarmed civilian was in danger and the officer had to make a quick guess on whether or not lethal force was needed.

One person died and one person was injured for attempted robbery with a deadly weapon. If they had shot the cashier in the face, grabbed the money, and ran, what sentences would they have gotten? Would it have been capital punishment?

If you need a brushup on the arguments against vigilante justice (aka justice outside of the courtroom), I recommend reading the Batman comics or just watching the movies.

[Melena]

One person died and one person was injured for attempted robbery with a deadly weapon. If they had shot the cashier in the face, grabbed the money, and ran, what sentences would they have gotten? Would it have been capital punishment?

If you need a brushup on the arguments against vigilante justice (aka justice outside of the courtroom), I recommend reading the Batman comics or just watching the movies.

That's up to the prosecutor. Capital punishment is an option, though right now in california there is a stay on executions due to several drug manufacture's in europe refusing to sell prisons the drugs needed for the execution.

Also what makes you think this is vigilante justice? If it was an onduty officer getting coffee when this happened instead of an off duty who was on his way home, would your opinion be different?

[archibaldcrane]

If you need a brushup on the arguments against vigilante justice

his hypothetical isn't vigilante justice

That being said, going guns blazing to stop an armed robber is what got my friend killed by a stray bullet, so I'm not too keen on it.

[Blubbartron]

I actually have a question for Ksandra and Blubb. This is an actual situation that occured in Oakland about 15-20 months ago. I'm curious to see if you feel the cop was in the right.

Off duty officer has his gun on him and makes a stop at a convenience store. While inside, two people enter the store. One of them pulls a gun on the cashier while the other acts as a lookout. Off duty officer draws his weapon and shoots and kills the person with a gun. The lookout sees this, and runs. The officer not knowing if the second is armed, shoots and wounds him and he's taken into custody.

Not knowing if the suspects gun was fake, or if he was going to shoot the clerk in the face, was he right in shooting first? I personally feel he was as there was a situation where an unarmed civilian was in danger and the officer had to make a quick guess on whether or not lethal force was needed.

I would tend towards no, if the clerk is being compliant and the guy with the gun only seems interested in money, killing someone to prevent a robbery isn't justified. The number of robberies that get done with unloaded firearms is pretty large. People that are doing petty burglary/robbery typically aren't interested in killing someone for fun, and executing them "in defense of others" is pretty insane when you look at it from that perspective. Also, shooting someone who's running away is fucking bullshit.

[Dimmauk]

Is Rap music, Obama, or video games to blame for all these traumatized cops? Why are they so scared of minorities? Is it because fox news and trump says so?

[Melena]

I would tend towards no, if the clerk is being compliant and the guy with the gun only seems interested in money, killing someone to prevent a robbery isn't justified. The number of robberies that get done with unloaded firearms is pretty large. People that are doing petty burglary/robbery typically aren't interested in killing someone for fun, and executing them "in defense of others" is pretty insane when you look at it from that perspective. Also, shooting someone who's running away is fucking bullshit.

And in this lies the problem. No one knows. Hell there was a robbery in NY early this morning, NBA player was robbed, he complied, and they still shot him afterwards in the knee. In situations like this, the officer is going to err on the side of public safety and shoot the suspect.

[Blubbartron]

And in this lies the problem. No one knows. Hell there was a robbery in NY early this morning, NBA player was robbed, he complied, and they still shot him afterwards in the knee. In situations like this, the officer is going to err on the side of public safety and shoot the suspect.

The ever-so-fatal shot to the knee. Clearly we need to start executing people just in case.