Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[Kaslo]

At least one of the cops acted like a human being to the black dude, calmly just asking "please man, just back up"

[archibaldcrane]

I think the showing of the footage should be 100% up to the family. The family should be shown the footage and then can either make a public statement or have it released. I can completely understand their intentions behind not releasing this to the public. If it was your father that was shot, would you want it released to be played over and over on the news/internet?

Well, the police video isn't the only video. His own wife filmed it too. Here's a transcription of the video.

It's not awesome to read.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/24....co/A8XKkDhyS4

[zoobernut]

All I can say is she is a petite 15 year old girl who is not a criminal it isn't that fucking hard to take a step back and talk to her. It is like they have 0 experience with kids. The harder you force them the more they push back. It doesn't matter how belligerent she got she is a minor and they are adults they should be better trained at de-escalation. How hard would it have been for them to stop for a moment and explain to her why they had to take her in?

Also I understand that she didn't behave well but again I feel like the onus is on the cops to find the easiest path in a situation not behave in a way that makes shit worse when someone is freaking out.

Disclaimer: I didn't watch the video since I am at work but I read the whole article.

[Yuri-G]

this displays the unfortunate flipside to the conflict between black people and the police. she was obviously being a complete psycho bitch for no reason, yet you still hear people ragging on the police, like that black guy in the background saying "you let that badge get to your head, man." there's an assumption that police never have the right to detain someone or even question them, and any use of force is brutality - that is not the case. force was appropriate here, even taking her age into account.


I mean honestly. I kinda want to find that bitch and give her a few swift kicks to the gut myself. what an awful child

All I can say is she is a petite 15 year old girl who is not a criminal it isn't that fucking hard to take a step back and talk to her. It is like they have 0 experience with kids. The harder you force them the more they push back. It doesn't matter how belligerent she got she is a minor and they are adults they should be better trained at de-escalation. How hard would it have been for them to stop for a moment and explain to her why they had to take her in?

Also I understand that she didn't behave well but again I feel like the onus is on the cops to find the easiest path in a situation not behave in a way that makes shit worse when someone is freaking out.

Disclaimer: I didn't watch the video since I am at work but I read the whole article.

watch the video. I completely disagree with you, and I'm pretty well encamped in idea that cops in this country routinely overstep their bounds. they tried to talk to her; she kicked an officer and began to bike away. they tried to detain her peacefully, she fought and screamed. could they have de-escalated a bit better? maybe... but honestly, they did as good of a job as I could expect with someone that belligerent. she was operating under the pretense from the outset that anything those cops did was wrong and she had every right to ignore them and/or fight them, and she displayed that repeatedly throughout the interaction.

[zoobernut]

What people fail to take into account is how fast a person goes into full psycho mode if they feel like they are being detained without reason. If they didn't explain it fully to her first then tried to detain her then they are asking for that kind of behavior. That shit is scary. If I was 15 and cops tried to handcuff me and take me away I would probably kick and scream and fight it as much as possible without even really thinking about it just automatically fight or flight response style.

I still think that the cops need to have the tools and abilities in place to deescalate situations like that.

Edit: Just to draw a parallel if I let myself get plugged into it when my 4 year old is not doing what I ask him to then sometimes we can get into a kicking screaming fit while I try to get him dressed but if I stop for just one moment and talk to him then we can go forth with what needs to be done. I know not a perfect analogy but it is a pretty universal behavioral trait in humans in that regard adults act that way all the time too.

Edit 2: I am not saying the cops are at fault here or should be punished I am just saying that this is a good learning tool moving forward cops can be better about situations like this. They have to rise above and be the 'adult' in any given situation.

[Day]

Well, the police video isn't the only video. His own wife filmed it too. Here's a transcription of the video.

It's not awesome to read.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/24....co/A8XKkDhyS4

Yeah I commented in the charlotte thread, I watched the vid and am left with more questions than before. The wife claims he doesn't have a gun initially but then changes tone to "Keith dont you do it". This one will likely be ruled justified if I had to guess.

[Yuri-G]

What people fail to take into account is how fast a person goes into full psycho mode if they feel like they are being detained without reason. If they didn't explain it fully to her first then tried to detain her then they are asking for that kind of behavior. That shit is scary. If I was 15 and cops tried to handcuff me and take me away I would probably kick and scream and fight it as much as possible without even really thinking about it just automatically fight or flight response style.

I still think that the cops need to have the tools and abilities in place to deescalate situations like that.

Edit: Just to draw a parallel if I let myself get plugged into it when my 4 year old is not doing what I ask him to then sometimes we can get into a kicking screaming fit while I try to get him dressed but if I stop for just one moment and talk to him then we can go forth with what needs to be done. I know not a perfect analogy but it is a pretty universal behavioral trait in humans in that regard adults act that way all the time too.

Edit 2: I am not saying the cops are at fault here or should be punished I am just saying that this is a good learning tool moving forward cops can be better about situations like this. They have to rise above and be the 'adult' in any given situation.

what you're not grasping is that they tried to explain it to her and she kicked a cop and then tried to bike away. what were they supposed to do, run after her while explaining the situation?


I really think you need to watch the video before you comment further. they tried very hard to be nice to her and work with her. she 100% was the one who made the situation difficult at every step along the way.

[NynJa]

Youre comparing the intellect of your 4 year old to a 15 year old honor roll student...

[zoobernut]

Youre comparing the intellect of your 4 year old to a 15 year old honor roll student...

You guys are right I need to watch the video.

In response to this you would be amazed how many similarities in behavior there is between a 4 year old and adults specially when you are trying to get them to do something for you. You can use the same techniques to talk to adults as a young child.

[Yuri-G]

oh no, I work customer service. I wouldn't be surprised at all

[Salodin]

What people fail to take into account is how fast a person goes into full psycho mode if they feel like they are being detained without reason. If they didn't explain it fully to her first then tried to detain her then they are asking for that kind of behavior.

That's the citizens fault, not the cops. People think cops have no right to stop and ask you questions, or even detain you for questioning, etc, but news flash people they do. If a cop stops you, just stop and listen. If they violate your civil rights then deal with it later with a lawyer, but at the moment in time you listen to fucking orders. It's not that fucking hard. Even if people are being unfairly stopped, it's not that hard to escape the situation with out getting fucking shot. Many minorities have figured it out, it's time for some of these communities to catch up.

[zoobernut]

That's the citizens fault, not the cops. People think cops have no right to stop and ask you questions, or even detain you for questioning, etc, but news flash people they do. If a cop stops you, just stop and listen. If they violate your civil rights then deal with it later with a lawyer, but at the moment in time you listen to fucking orders. It's not that fucking hard. Even if people are being unfairly stopped, it's not that hard to escape the situation with out getting fucking shot. Many minorities have figured it out, it's time for some of these communities to catch up.

Do they really have this right? I thought that all those things like the Bill of Rights mean they don't have that right at all but I am not a lawyer so I may be wrong.

[Greatguardian]

Do they really have this right? I thought that all those things like the Bill of Rights mean they don't have that right at all but I am not a lawyer so I may be wrong.

What rights someone does or does not have are not determined on the streets, they are determined in a court of law. If you are stopped or detained unlawfully you can sue the police department after the fact and win. It does not mean you can simply walk away at the time of the stop. The world doesn't work that way.

edit: I thought it was also made clear in the recording that the reason she was stopped was that she refused to produce identification (police always ensure both parties exchange information when they're called to accidents). The officers also needed to involve her parents because the girl was a minor and was trying to refuse medical care.

She insisted she could leave because she felt fine, but that wasn't all that mattered. It's possible that she damaged the old man's car.

[Niiro]

They cannot detain you for no reason, and you are not obligated to answer questions. In the case of being pulled over, you're obligated to provide ID and proof of insurance and nothing else.

They can detain and search you with cause but you are still not obligated to answer questions, the question then becomes where is the threshold for reasonable detainment (this is the big question really).

"Deal with it later with a lawyer" is a horrible point of view, if a cop decides to shove a baton up your ass it's little goddamn consolation to be able file a complaint and maybe get a court date in a few months while spending thousands of dollars (that you presumably have) on a lawyer for a case that might never be heard.

It's disgusting that people are okay with police overreaching their authority and excusing it with "just deal with it later," simply assuming people have the time and the money to do so.

[thetruepandagod]

"Deal with it later with a lawyer" is a horrible point of view, if a cop decides to shove a baton up your ass it's little goddamn consolation to be able file a complaint

Pray tell what is the correct course of action to take when a cop is shoving a baton up your ass?

[Niiro]

Ask him to spit on first at least, I mean damn.

[thetruepandagod]

Surely you have a real answer instead of a witty barb considering your vehemence when decrying the given path.

[Greatguardian]

When a police officer shoves a baton up your ass, you let me know. Perhaps more importantly, you let me know when you manage to turn around and walk away unscathed from a police encounter which you don't feel is justified.

[Yuri-G]

one thing to point out: they had a legal reason to detain her. reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation

[Niiro]

Surely you have a real answer instead of a witty barb considering your vehemence when decrying the given path.

I thought the question was a joke as well tbh. It was an obvious exaggeration of how a cop might overstep their authority during a stop.

A serious answer to how to avoid such things is simply being informed of your rights and what you are and are not obligated to do, ultimately all you can do is make a complaint after the fact unless you want to risk getting your ass beat and hauled in for nothing, and that's the saddest part.

The underlying point is people should not be so blase about the loose constitutionality of many police searches and detainment and purporting litigation as a reasonable solution. Fun fact: judges and DAs are extremely biased in favor of the police and the only "official" account of the events is the cop's.