Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[FNH]

Not saying the officers actions were right by any means but the guy filming did this just to be a dick.

A lot of videos and media about things like this basically is an assault on police officers being human. I've worked DUI checkpoints before that turned in to chases and felony drug arrests. 99% of them were initiated by precursor actions by the suspect. Not making eye contact, evasive in questioning, arguing, questioning the officer, abrasive language, all of that is indicators of someone trying to hide something and prompts investigating. It's all based on tried and true science and tactics to be a good investigator and it's these fundamentals that are being put in to question. Why are we putting police on the street? Why not just get a robot to do everything? At least then you can take away the robots sense of discretion and gut feelings.

What ever happened to the old fliers they used to pass around in school that tell you what to do when the police stop you? Keep your hands visible, speak politely and calmly, don't argue with the officer and do what they say. Nowadays a simple routine traffic stop turns in to 20 questions to throw you off and suddenly everyone's a lawyer. It doesn't seem to me like the deputies in the video were being dicks in the beginning, just asking the simple basic questions routine of a DUI checkpoint. His sudden resistance can be an indicator of someone trying to hide something or worse, trying to kill someone. If he had just did everything textbook, it would have been "Okay sir have a nice day." and gone. Fucking with people like that is just plain asinine and could very well turn bad for everyone involved.

Also I wanna see the science behind the dog sniffing thing. The dog has to follow the officers hands and commands to sniff because you can't speak to him and say "Sniff the window" and he understands that. It's a dog. When dogs get a hit on a smell, they do what they're trained to do and that depends on the training. Some dogs sit, some dogs bark, some dogs freeze in place at the exact spot they get the hit at, and some of them scratch. Scratching is more indicative of a cadaver dog though so his assessment of the dog scratching his shit up is a bit off (although I've never seen a K-9 unit put a dog on a car...) The K-9 officer said in the video "It wasn't even a good hit." which could mean that it was a faint trigger, not necessarily no hit at all. Anything could have triggered a hit. The mere contact to contact surface transfer of oils or powder residue (even if it's latent) can get a hit. He may claim he never had drugs in the car but he could have did a line or smoked up before he drove or one of his friends who got in the car could have done something similar and the oils would be present on the surface for weeks. In essence, a K-9 unit goes friggin' crazy on every scene just because there's so many different possibilities of a contact, it just doesn't know where to go. The solution? Comprehensive sweep/search of the area where there's an indicator and find it.

It's usually the slippery slope argument, descending into Nazi Germany allegories. DUI/Insurance/Seat belt checkpoints are all bullshit and remove the need for probable cause if you ride into one.

On the K-9 thing, you are probably biased and won't think that the handler can't possibly manipulate the animal to do what he wants. Also, unlike a police officer, the K-9 can't be brought in to testify about the specifics of the search.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Also, unlike a police officer, the K-9 can't be brought in to testify about the specifics of the search.

that's what YOU think! bitches talk all the time

[archibaldcrane]

If officers didn't lie constantly, dudes with cameras wouldn't need to sport-fuck them.

If you ask an officer "am I being detained?" and he flat out refuses to answer you, I have zero sympathy for any embarrassing sport-fucking that comes his way.

If you think the dog gave a legit hit on that car, (as opposed to an embarrassed rageaholic officer out to get a civilian who doesn't submit instantly to his authority) then I don't think we are on the same planet, much less watch the same video.

[Nephlite]

It's usually the slippery slope argument, descending into Nazi Germany allegories. DUI/Insurance/Seat belt checkpoints are all bullshit and remove the need for probable cause if you ride into one.

On the K-9 thing, you are probably biased and won't think that the handler can't possibly manipulate the animal to do what he wants. Also, unlike a police officer, the K-9 can't be brought in to testify about the specifics of the search.

I know there's a lot of jurisdictions that are getting rid of DUI enforcement checkpoints because they do less arrests for DUI and more arrests for other stuff. The only reason why enforcement actions on other things like suspended license lockups on DUI checkpoints is because of inevitable discovery. Either you were going to be stopped at a checkpoint or you walk in to the DMV after driving your car to the place to get your suspension lifted and the DMV alerts the police who warrant you. Either way, it's still enforcement of the laws the government wrote for the population. Don't like the laws? Change em!

Of course I'm biased on the K-9 thing because I believe in the police. I don't think every cop out there is bad just because 1 or 2 bad seeds in a million fuck up. It's human nature to make mistakes. I'm also involved in some of these discussions because some people are stubborn as hell and don't have anyone (cept maybe Jmc) to give a different side than what you see in black and white or on a (heavily) edited video. That's how most cops work anyways. Have to see both sides of the picture. While I don't like the kid for doing what he did, it's still his right to do so and it was up to the officers to keep their cool. Shame because the officers were probably good guys who were just going off their gut. Who knows? One things for sure though: depending on that states laws, the kid could be in trouble because some states require you to stop and identify yourself at checkpoints. Just sayin'.

Not sure if I saw this on BG or not but crazy nonetheless:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3518340.html

A University of Virginia student says she was put in jail after buying cookie dough, ice cream and a pack of bottled water that state agents mistook for beer, according to multiple reports.

Elizabeth Daly, 20, says she was in her car in the parking lot of a Charlottesville, Va., grocery store in April when she was approached by seven plainclothes agents from the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, one of whom she says pulled a gun on her, according to the Charlottesville Daily Progress.

Daly, whose story recently made headlines, turned her car on to lower the windows when she says the officers began yelling at her not to move her car and tried to break the windows. She fled the scene, not knowing if the officers were police, the outlet notes.

Then the result:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...080_story.html

Officials with the Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control announced Friday that they are changing how they conduct undercover operations designed to catch underage drinkers.

At least one uniformed officer will accompany plainclothes officers when such an operation is being conducted, officials said. The change stems from an April incident in which a student at the University of Virginia was arrested for attempting to flee from undercover officers, who thought she bought a case of beer from a Harris Teeter supermarket. It turned out that Elizabeth Daly, 20, had bought a case of bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream for a sorority fundraiser.

[Rhinox]

Yeah. Fuck that noise.


Hate the fact that we gotta tiptoe around cops and end sentences with sir or mam just so we don't fucking get bullied by some tough guy with a badge.

[Nephlite]

If officers didn't lie constantly, dudes with cameras wouldn't need to sport-fuck them

Yeah but it's not illegal for the police to lie to you. Gotta butter you up a little to get a confession.

Yeah. Fuck that noise.


Hate the fact that we gotta tiptoe around cops and end sentences with sir or mam just so we don't fucking get bullied by some tough guy with a badge.

I actually would rather people don't call me sir. I address everyone by Sir or Mister or Ma'am by habit (military) but I would rather someone be emotional with me. I don't like formalities when I'm talking to someone because it makes them uncomfortable. Plain language, no holds barred. Need to cuss? Go right ahead. As long as you get your point across and I can understand where you're coming from, I don't have a problem with it.

There are some ego-maniac cops out there though. When I was in FTO, my trainer told a victim of a robbery "Address me as MPO, not Officer."

Made me puke on the inside.

[Blubbartron]

There is no such thing as good people or bad people (and as a direct consequence, no such thing as good cops and bad cops). There are just people in situations that can cause otherwise normal people to do unspeakable things. You shouldn't trust anyone with power or authority, ever. Statistically speaking they either currently are or eventually will be abusing their position at others' expense.

[Nephlite]

There is no such thing as good people or bad people (and as a direct consequence, no such thing as good cops and bad cops). There are just people in situations that can cause otherwise normal people to do unspeakable things. You shouldn't trust anyone with power or authority, ever. Statistically speaking they either currently are or eventually will be abusing their position at others' expense.

Good video. Seen it. Statistically you have also abused something in your lifetime or taken advantage of someone, somewhere, at some time as well. Human nature. Who do you trust then? No one? You're entirely self-sufficient and reliant upon yourself that you need no one else at any time for anything and all your needs are entirely satisfied by you and you alone?

[FNH]

Yeah but it's not illegal for the police to lie to you. Gotta butter you up a little to get a confession.

.

Not illegal to refuse questioning either. Or in his state to refuse to identify when not being detained.

[archibaldcrane]

Yeah but it's not illegal for the police to lie to you. Gotta butter you up a little to get a confession.

Tell me more about the "am i being detained or am i free to go?" thing.

Could this guy have pretty much said, "if I'm not being detained I'm going to headon my way now" and calmly driven away? The cop had no evidence of wrongdoing at that time, for how long can he restrict that guy's rights without suspicion of a crime?

[FNH]

Tell me more about the "am i being detained or am i free to go?" thing.

Could this guy have pretty much said, "if I'm not being detained I'm going to headon my way now" and calmly driven away? The cop had no evidence of wrongdoing at that time, for how long can he restrict that guy's rights without suspicion of a crime?

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/h...ce-detain-you/

[FNH]

That's why I like most of these videos[until it turns out that person committed murder later(thanks open carry guy!)], it gets people educated on their rights.

[archibaldcrane]

http://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/h...ce-detain-you/

So in the case of a checkpoint, where there is no evidence of illegal activity at the outset, what activities are within the "reasonable period of investigation"? And can a cop refuse to respond as to whether you are being detained?

[Nephlite]

This was a DUI checkpoint though. This isn't a traffic stop or a contact on the street. The thing that most people don't realize is most of these scenario's you can defend yourself with the "Am I being detained?" question are face-to-face contacts on the street. If the cop has PC to pull you over, yes you are detained and no you are not free to go and yes you are required to show me your I.D. If he's illegally pulling you over then yeah, do it. But really how do you know that a cop is illegally pulling you over? I can pull you over for a busted tail light. But that's why (usually) the first thing a cop does when they pull you over is say "Hello. I'm Officer Smith with Yadayadayada Police Department. The reason I stopped you today is because XYZ."

As long as all of the officers are consistent with their investigatory stops (every vehicle is stopped, every person is identified, every person is checked for signs of DUI), then it's legal. You can't drive through a DUI checkpoint. You can avoid them by turning around (doesn't guarantee that a pursuit car won't pick you up as fleeing from a checkpoint is an indicator of avoiding prosecution), but you are required by the law to stop and I.D. yourself at a DUI checkpoint. The kid knew his laws and he knew his rights. He wasn't necessarily right either and he got a cop who couldn't speak well enough to defend himself and got caught up in the moment. Even a defense attorney said in that same article:

When asked if the Constitutional rights of the driver were violated, McKinney said, "Not from what I saw there."

McKinney said the driver's Constitutional rights in the video were not violated since officers have a right to ask drivers for their identification. Plus, being detained is also within the officer's legal rights if it's for an investigative purposes.

Investigative purposes being DUI Checkpoint here.

[archibaldcrane]

Does it matter that the cop made no effort to determine whether he was DUIing or not?

His complete disregard for the ostensible purpose for the stop, combined with the complete lack of any other criminal activity, makes this look like harassment, not a legitimate stop.

[Nephlite]

Determining DUI, first and foremost, has to do with the present circumstances. DUI checkpoint, evasive in questions, not rolling down a window so the officer can't smell alcohol in the vehicle can be an indicator. The first, and essentially the most paramount indicator is the smell of alcoholic beverages coming from the subject. The next question "Are you 21?" is the difference between an immediate arrest and Field Sobriety Tests.

Like I said, I'm not necessarily agreeing with the officer. I feel he probably did this so many times he never encountered such resistance and got flabbergasted by someone who attempted to outwit him. Usually people just comply. 95% of the people you encounter are going to comply. It's that 5% who are "difficult customers" (as my customer service trainer puts it) that put us in a rut. It doesn't happen enough to become second nature, much like speaking a second language. If you don't speak it enough, you eventually become stale and your skill deteriorates until you can't do it anymore. That's why in-service training and regular workshops are so important to keep these skills fresh so you know how to deal with them.

Again I am biased because I've seen it a lot but to somewhat justify his actions, I would say that all he was thinking was "This guy is hiding something..." instead of what you should be thinking nowadays "This guy is trying to trap me..." Silence isn't necessarily an admission of guilt but it's not saying you are innocent. On the same line of thinking, arguing with the officer or trying to engage the officer in a battle of wills isn't necessarily an admission of guilt but it's not saying you aren't guilty, you're just trying to cover it up. Make sense?

[archibaldcrane]

Don't get me wrong, I get why the cop was suspicious, but it looked like his hurt ego got in the way of proper police work, and when you're on the razor's edge of constitutional detaining you should be even more conscious of, frankly, looking like an asshole.

[Nephlite]

Meh. I look like an asshole every time I put on the uniform. My image doesn't interfere with me doing my job though. Stuff like this happens so much that people in the field say you're not doing your job if you don't get any complaints or get accused of violating someones rights. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone is entitled to exercise their rights. What's most important is what the DOJ thinks about your violation. If they don't think that you did anything wrong then you didn't and move on. If we thought about it too much, we would never be able to do our jobs. Scared cops are dead cops.

[Tyche]

If the K9 scratched up the car on some trumped up bullshit suspicion that brings nothing, who foots the detail bill?

[Nephlite]

The department. They usually have cash on hand for small claims. If you sue they'll drag it out. If you settle it'll be quick and painless.