Ridiculous Police News (Specific events)

[notorious bum]

Organized mob, snatchin' yo shit up:

ProPublica ‏@ProPublica

Since 9/11, police have seized $2.5B in warrantless searches from people not charged w/ crime http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...top-and-seize/

(Need to combine this data with how much money they make off of the marijuana businesses and farm operations that they raid, which still continue to this day)

[Nephlite]

So, in your experience, how many injuries would you estimate were a result of actions before police involvement?

In my experience, 90-95% of transports from police custody are injury prior to contact. Domestics, Assaults, gun calls; policing in general is reactive to these types of calls. Only 1-2% of contacts are self-initiated and result in a scuffle or a fight. I don't count alcohol-related calls because they're unique in their own right, but generally we don't bust people for intox. There's a Disorderly Conduct charge for Public Intoxication, that rarely is enforced unless the person tries to fight us. Most of the time, they fight themselves or the street before we get there, and we get them EMS instead of arresting them (we don't have a drunk tank anymore).

Also, I would like for you to point out where and how I am a hypocrite. You come across as cocky and standoffish as a stereotypical LEO in these threads. I do read what you write and I do value your input, but I also challenge your perceived attitude as a matter of course to try to get you to see the "ordinary citizen's" view of police activity. Your intentions matter naught when you are perceived to be harmful in your actions (you, being Law Enforcement in general).

I always have, and continue to remain on both sides of the fence in most arguments, and harp and advertise looking at both sides of the picture, rather than jumping to conclusions. You, originally, had the same attitude, but seem to have jumped on the bandwagon as of late (a hypocrite). I can see now your attitude is more towards me because of my "cocky and standoffish" attitude.

Good news: I don't care. Your opinion matters, and it is your right. Frankly, I don't think I'm cocky at all. Police procedures, mentality, the state of being an LEO, I comment on because that's how it is. It's not pretty and I won't sugarcoat it. What I don't like, is people throwing sensationalist ideas towards public opinion to sway arguments for some unseen agenda. Think all police officers are bad and can show me a hundred examples of it? I can show you a hundred examples of police officers going above and beyond the call of duty to throw that argument in your face.

Don't think that I don't care; I do. I do recognize and see that there is police misconduct, there's bigotry in our field, and I still believe that it's not as widespread as people think it is. Simply because people think it's being pulled over my eyes and I'm blind to it, but I ask those people to come see it first hand to judge for themselves. They can't or they won't (or they're scared).

Blame the police all you want. I blame the state of our country. Look at what's happening now that people are jumping and crying misconduct, and look at the examples of people getting caught in a lie and people finding out that people are overstating the facts that they're brutalized. Guess what? Those people should get charged with filing false reports, slander, and be sued. We don't do it. Why? Because we're better than that, and rather you sit back with egg on your face.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...10shrtbl08.xls

Homicides are down in the U.S. Why? Is it because people are safer? Are people calming themselves down and killing each other less? Or maybe it's because the police are doing a better job? D.C. was murder capitol for years. Then our current Chief came in and put the officers on the street. AHOD (All Hands on Deck) weekends for maximum staffing and sending foot beat officers in the hood to be the "proactive element" to the streets like the "beat cops" of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. What happened? Homicides went down dramatically. Violent crime and gun crime still up there, but people are dying less at least. Who cares that this is the same tactic that Bloomberg used when assigning the NYPD to the "Stop and Frisk" program and our stats for "Stop and Frisk" have jumped almost 300% within the past 3 years and our complaints and civil liability complaints have jumped through the roof? Crimes down, fuck it.

Still had almost 13,000 homicides in the U.S. in 2010. Compare that to the 300 people police have killed, and you can see a disparity that it's not the police that are killing the citizens, but the citizens are still killing each other.

But it's okay, though. Blame the police. I don't mind. I actually don't mind you calling me racist. I'm still here and will still continue to do the same job, and will still be right here to smile to myself when I see another good story of good cops doing good things YOU as an ordinary citizen would NEVER bother to do given the same exact circumstances.

Be back in a few hours. Gotta go help old ladies change their tires on the side of 295 before rush-hour lets up.

[Gokku]

Nep,

You do realize that even if you cut out 95% of those injurys black males would still be 5x's higher? I'm most disturbed by your notion that the ends justify the means. It doesn't matter if not searched and frisked nearly the entire citys population of blacks, but hey few people didn't get shot total worth it right.... No.

Just doing things no ordinary citizens would

[Nephlite]

I was making fun of the program. I, and most of my Compadre's, think it's rediculous. Saturation techniques like that cause nothing but problems (see the results of Stop and Frisk).

You see, people all wanting to be part of this issue think about the greater good, while I still focus on the individual. I don't care about "the big picture" or "the greater good" when I contact individuals. I'm focused on that one person, yet I have to think about the greater good at the same time.

Look at it this way: it sucks people had their rights violated, but if it saves just one life, then it's worth it. People are all up in arms about Bloomberg pushing for such tight firearms control and keeping guns out of peoples hands. Why? Because guns kill a lot of friggin' people in our country. He sees it, and decided to do something about it. Who else thought of such a plan? Who else is doing what to curb gun violence in America?

Believe me, I'm right there. Right on the edge of it. Right in the middle, so to speak. That's the thin blue line.

[archibaldcrane]

300 people police killed, eh? Hedging pretty low there aren't ya Neph?

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...ill-each-year/

I wonder how/if innocent bystander deaths are recorded when police kill them.

[Acevalefor]

To clarify the meaning of hypocrite Nephlite, it means to do one thing but say another, or to espouse one belief while practicing another. It has nothing to do with taking a stance on a certain incident involving police and a city in Missouri. Changing your mind about something as you learn more about it is not hypocritical either. I haven't even talked about the original incident that sparked the protests and riots in Fergusen. My problem is with the way the crowds were handled AFTER that fateful afternoon.

Then, when we talked about swatting I pointed out a news story in which the officers responded without the use of a swat team or military gear, and all was settled in the end. This was to illustrate that military-style tactics are not necessary or prudent in most police activity as a whole. Again, no hypocritical behavior displayed.

Regarding your statement about doing things I would not do, you are right. I will not do some of the things you do, but I do carry a First Aid card, advanced First Aid training, CPR, and Incident response training. I carry my First Aid kit almost everywhere I go. I do this because I can. I stop and help when I see someone on the side of the road. I stop and help when I come up on an accident. I spent 5 years working for AAA and have access to lots of their resources to help stranded drivers. I have mechanical knowledge and tools to help people at least get their car home or to a repair shop. I enjoy helping people and feeling that I have done something good for someone else. I am far from your view of an "ordinary citizen".

So in conclusion, perhaps I am a little too critical of you, but as I said already, I do read what you write and do value your input. Anybody that displays a "superior" attitude puts me on edge to begin with. I understand there are far more good cops and good encounters with police than bad. I am still allowed to get upset when I see something bad happen and nothing is done to address it.

[NynJa]

Then, when we talked about swatting I pointed out a news story in which the officers responded without the use of a swat team or military gear, and all was settled in the end. This was to illustrate that military-style tactics are not necessary or prudent in most police activity as a whole. Again, no hypocritical behavior displayed.

There are multiple reasons why X police force would not immediately deploy swat whereas Y police force will, up to and including:
-Kept more up to date with the whole swatting shit
-The call-in didnt report anything serious, or was called in as too serious it was unbelievable
-The callers spoofed number didnt register to the area
-Depending on what was called-in, it warranted investigation to why no one else called in

[Nephlite]

To clarify the meaning of hypocrite Nephlite, it means to do one thing but say another, or to espouse one belief while practicing another. It has nothing to do with taking a stance on a certain incident involving police and a city in Missouri. Changing your mind about something as you learn more about it is not hypocritical either. I haven't even talked about the original incident that sparked the protests and riots in Fergusen. My problem is with the way the crowds were handled AFTER that fateful afternoon.

Then, when we talked about swatting I pointed out a news story in which the officers responded without the use of a swat team or military gear, and all was settled in the end. This was to illustrate that military-style tactics are not necessary or prudent in most police activity as a whole. Again, no hypocritical behavior displayed.

Regarding your statement about doing things I would not do, you are right. I will not do some of the things you do, but I do carry a First Aid card, advanced First Aid training, CPR, and Incident response training. I carry my First Aid kit almost everywhere I go. I do this because I can. I stop and help when I see someone on the side of the road. I stop and help when I come up on an accident. I spent 5 years working for AAA and have access to lots of their resources to help stranded drivers. I have mechanical knowledge and tools to help people at least get their car home or to a repair shop. I enjoy helping people and feeling that I have done something good for someone else. I am far from your view of an "ordinary citizen".

So in conclusion, perhaps I am a little too critical of you, but as I said already, I do read what you write and do value your input. Anybody that displays a "superior" attitude puts me on edge to begin with. I understand there are far more good cops and good encounters with police than bad. I am still allowed to get upset when I see something bad happen and nothing is done to address it.

You can still be hypocritical of mentality. I can dig through your post history to show you're a remarkable byproduct of feign glory, followed right up by bandwagoning slander. Crap on the other guys acting big because they think cops are out to get them? Nah, go after the guy everyone's gunning for.

S'ok, though. Your point about swatting was flawed, inaccurate, and based upon logic that helps push a liberal agenda that will go about the systematic dismantling of first responder capacity to deter and neutralize violent crime. Make sure that first aid kit is well stocked with pressure dressings and Quik Clot for bullet wounds.

[quannum]

Police say the darndest things

[Smokie]

I was waiting for someone to respond to him with that.

[Nephlite]

Police say the darndest things

[djzombie]

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2014/07/us-...s-of-swat/#mbl

Yea.. all that violent crime. Definitely needs tanks for police.

[Nephlite]

Crime went down because the police cracked down. I'm sure someone will argue that. Even still, arrest rates have stayed about the same. Could be all the violent offenders are in prison or dead. Or people are wising up to the fact that it's easy to get caught now. It's not like it's a huge and drastic cut, it's been pretty steady. Attribute it to increase of tactics and suppression.

For the actual stats:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr..._1993-2012.xls

[djzombie]

Attribute it to increase of tactics and suppression.

I can't do that simply because the rate of violent crime has been falling steadily and only recently have we witnessed the militarization of entire police departments. In the past its been swat that has been called on for high pressure violent situations. Now you have them being called on for no knock warrants against low level drug dealers, often times creating violence where there wasn't any before. Prohibition turns non violent otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals. We couldn't do that though, prison industrial complex employs too many people.

"The only blood in the streets is when the government is spillin it."
Kweli

[Nephlite]

I can't do that simply because the rate of violent crime has been falling steadily and only recently have we witnessed the militarization of entire police departments. In the past its been swat that has been called on for high pressure violent situations. Now you have them being called on for no knock warrants against low level drug dealers, often times creating violence where there wasn't any before. Prohibition turns non violent otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals. We couldn't do that though, prison industrial complex employs too many people.

"The only blood in the streets is when the government is spillin it."
Kweli

No knocks have been used for years. It's not a new concept. The only reason people are up in arms about it is the tactics have changed and the police are using gear that makes these raids safer for the responders .

The reason the tactics changed is because of the violence associated with raids of that caliber. You never know what to expect. In the 70's and 80's, you take dozens of guys, strap on some vests with a few shotguns and go at it. Cops were getting killed in these raids due to lack of training and lack of equipment to keep them safe.

Now the gear has gotten better, the tactics better, the raids are more successful with less people getting killed, and people are angry because the cover is more intimidating. That's all this is; people are intimidated by force and displays of it. Go to some of these Asian countries or down in South America where the police have been the oppressors of those countries for years, and they just wear regular blue uniforms (I'll get it out the way now and say "same here in america" so people don't have to post 1000 replies to flip the script).

I'm not a fan of "no knock" raids, but they do have their place when it's credible. I don't like too many unknowns, and I like to do my homework before doing that type of operation. I would like to point out, that SWAT is not used as the primary on operations for drug raids. Usually, it's combined task forces from many agencies (possibly even the DEA). They're using gear and equipment that's usually associated with SWAT, but not really a SWAT team. Will also throw out the argument that they could be the same in these instances, but if you talk to any real SWAT or ERT operator, they'll laugh at serving a drug warrant without real, credible threat assessment, as that is what their job is (see: Flashpoint and the Canadian RCMP ERT).

[BaneTheBrawler]

... raids safer for the responders ... Cops were getting killed in these raids due to lack of training and lack of equipment to keep them safe ... more successful with less people [cops] getting killed

this is the problem. when you signed up to be a cop, did you sign up to protect and serve other cops? or the civilian population? because it sure sounds like you're placing the safety of people who LITERALLY CHOSE THIS AS THEIR JOB over people just chillin in their homes.

[Eurell]

this is the problem. when you signed up to be a cop, did you sign up to protect and serve other cops? or the civilian population? because it sure sounds like you're placing the safety of people who LITERALLY CHOSE THIS AS THEIR JOB over people just chillin in their homes.

Pretty sure its both. Can't protect anyone if you die.

[Boyiee]

this is the problem. when you signed up to be a cop, did you sign up to protect and serve other cops? or the civilian population? because it sure sounds like you're placing the safety of people who LITERALLY CHOSE THIS AS THEIR JOB over people just chillin in their homes.

Any first responder, Fire, EMS, Paramedics, Cops:

My life is priority #1, the guy next to me is priority #2, and everyone else is 3rd. There is no problem with this, its risk vs. reward. It's a job, it isn't worth throwing your life away to not come home to your family. There has to be a damn good reason to go into something you might not come out of, and you better be fully prepared. The guy next to you counts on you to get him out of shit if it gets bad, and you rely on him. The people being rescued are always last on the list.

[BaneTheBrawler]

i get that. but we're not talking about rushing into a building that is already on fire. the situations we're talking about here are CREATED by the police. it'd be like if the fire department went around burning down any building that violated fire code... and then blaming the residents when they're too slow getting out.

[Boyiee]

i get that. but we're not talking about rushing into a building that is already on fire. the situations we're talking about here are CREATED by the police. it'd be like if the fire department went around burning down any building that violated fire code... and then blaming the residents when they're too slow getting out.

mmm no I don't believe so. How is going into a known felons house who is armed and even barricaded sometimes a situation created by police? These people are in everyones neighborhoods, maybe they should just leave them be? SWAT teams aren't used for no knock warrants to begin with, its usually a combined group of ATF, some officers, county, etc, and are very small groups unless there is credible threat. These people are all vested anyway and typically the only extra gear they wear are helmets. When SRT does go in, its with credible threat, people that have an idea they are coming or people with known retaliation in the past and known weapons on scene. Having known 3 officers shot in the past few years, I don't know why anyone would be against an officer equipping for his own safety.