Tera: Random Complaint Thread. +12, but now what do I do with all this fodder?

[shidobu]

Your argument is gear matters in pvp.
When imo/and experience stun and knockdown rate are death in bg. As a sorc that was the only time i died in BG is when i got stun locked to death from backstabs and leash chainings.

Untill they put in some kind of league where we all have the same gear in bg. you are just wasting your breath (keystrokes)?

This is an MMO after all at its core.
People will play to have the best gear to make the content easier. Because thats what mmos are, time sinks with a little sense of accomplishment in earning gear and loot

and i dont understand what you mean by this

"I don't want to be stuck in Archaic 2004 design decisions where I can't play my character for weeks after I take weeks to level it to the cap because gear exists"

Huh? what this looked like to me "I want everything handed to me i just dinged lvl 60 where the fuck is my +12MW gear?"

Nothings stopping you from queuing in BG earning your points, yea its gonna be shitty for a while your gonna get your ass kicked till your properly geared (oh noooo action mmo and gear dont mix). Still this is an MMO with gear progression obviously there's gonna be a difference between the guy that just got lvl 60 and the person thats been grinding it out for months. How else you gonna flex your epeen?

[Shiyo]

Gear progression should NEVER exist in PVP. Gear progression in PVP makes literally no sense is is beyond retarded. You could "flex your epeen" by not being horrible at the game and needing to be carried by gear. Let's not keep using shit design decisions that have existed since EQ, please.

I don't want everything handed to me upon hitting 60, I want gear not to matter as much as it does. Gear should help you, I want to be able to progress my character with sidegrades/gear, but your skill as a player should be the main factor in if you can do X content. After all, this game was advertised as an action MMO, kind of silly to make gear matter more in this game than any other MMORPG ever created, don't you think?

Your entire argument is "well, it's always been like that in MMO's so it's ok". No, it's not OK, it's also stupid to think that way, you should want to FIX stupid design decisions, not be OK with them. That's called battered wife syndrome, so used to being beaten you're OK with it and think it's ok.

[Senji]

I hope the new 20 man raids drop a BoP item required for the next stage of powerful PVP gear.

[Maaglin]

I keep coming back to this game on and off. I always have a blast when I first start up again for about a month or so and ended up with a lancer and slayer at 60. Then the repetition/grind just gets to me, the horrible quest/leveling system. I literally have no idea what is happening in this game story wise and I don't care. I enjoy running the dungeons, but it's not all I ever want to do as an endgame activity, and just grinding for each new set of released gear isn't fun. Nexus is horrible and PVP was never my thing.

The main thing is that I don't feel any real sense of accomplishment when I do anything in the game. Makes for a very shallow experience. A cool combat system and graphics can only carry me so far.

Seems like this game has/had so much potential in a lot of area's. Suppose in another 3 or 4 months I'll start up again and be disappointed again.

[Pere]

I do agree with Shiyo that gears matters too much. Yesterday i was doing bgs and an archer was oneshoting me (83k dmg) he had +12 conjunct weapon i got full +9 fraywind i mean cmon? oneshot? that's not fair... if it was @75% hp in one hit i wouldn't mind, he worked towards pvp gear he deserves to hit hard but oneshot? jesus it's not like he had that much better gear he was only 1 tier above me and only in the weapon. I won't coment on pve because i haven't done much endgame dungeons but guys you can't deny what he is saying, he is being a bit buthurt about it but he does have a point.

[shidobu]

Gear progression should NEVER exist in PVP. Gear progression in PVP makes literally no sense is is beyond retarded. You could "flex your epeen" by not being horrible at the game and needing to be carried by gear. Let's not keep using shit design decisions that have existed since EQ, please.

Then what are you supposed to do when you want to offer PvP'ers new content and new gear to strive for? When BH is literally doing everything they can to force people to do PvP and PvE content (needing to do nexus for pvp crafting items) and needed to do BG for PvE crafted items.

Gear should help you, I want to be able to progress my character with sidegrades/gear,

And it does. but since it doesn't work in your favor you seem to be mad about it?

Its all part of the mmo experience dont kid yourself. Get gear then get better gear, having the gear means you put in the work you got the kills when you had shitty gear doesn't mean you got to e-z mode through everything stop fucking thinking in black and white. You want your "skill" to shine in a game where stun,lag,lock-ons exist? Because even when you have the "top gear" your still gonna eat shit and still be screaming about how unfair bg is when your stun locked and you can't do shit. Or how archers are to op yada yada.

btw im all for a ranked league of BG with a static setup for each class. but that's left up to BH to implement and im not holding my breath

[Senji]

I do agree with Shiyo that gears matters too much. Yesterday i was doing bgs and an archer was oneshoting me (83k dmg) he had +12 conjunct weapon i got full +9 fraywind i mean cmon? oneshot? that's not fair... if it was @75% hp in one hit i wouldn't mind, he worked towards pvp gear he deserves to hit hard but oneshot? jesus it's not like he had that much better gear he was only 1 tier above me and only in the weapon. I won't coment on pve because i haven't done much endgame dungeons but guys you can't deny what he is saying, he is being a bit buthurt about it but he does have a point.

Red buff, tera buff, C.pot. Pick 1, probably 2.

[Pere]

Yeah i do know, still it isn't fun to get oneshoted by such a marginal diference in gear, we could use a little nerf there to improve pvp a bit and make it more fun. Granted that after the 2nd oneshot i was cc'ing that archer like there was no tomorrow i think he spent 5 minutes cc'd between sleeps stuns and fears. I don't mind being stun-locked and getting ganked but oneshot? you can't do jackshit against that, it's not fun and you guys know it. I'm not saying there shouldn't be pvp gear progresion but they should just tone it down to a point someone with 1 tier above you can't oneshot you, put a cap on the dmg you can do related to your tier of gear, improve the effect of the pvp stats and work towards barancu through it, i don't know i'm sure there are tons of solutions to it.

[Senji]

Yeah i do know, still it isn't fun to get oneshoted by such a marginal diference in gear, we could use a little nerf there to improve pvp a bit and make it more fun. Granted that after the 2nd oneshot i was cc'ing that archer like there was no tomorrow i think he spent 5 minutes cc'd between sleeps stuns and fears. I don't mind being stun-locked and getting ganked but oneshot? you can't do jackshit against that, it's not fun and you guys know it. I'm not saying there shouldn't be pvp gear progresion but they should just tone it down to a point someone with 1 tier above you can't oneshot you, put a cap on the dmg you can do related to your tier of gear, improve the effect of the pvp stats and work towards barancu through it, i don't know i'm sure there are tons of solutions to it.

Also forgot about loser buff.

With whatever buffs they had, with equal gear you probably would have been close to that 1 shot anyways. With no buffs, completely equal tier, and a proper build; archer and sorc 1 shots dont happen. I haven't sat down to officially test zerkers though.

The powercreep is larger than I'd design, but the arena changes are intended to fix it. Hands and feet are essentially free MES + free fodder + free alkahest - Nexus grind - MCHM grind for 3% quills. If people dont queue in droves for it (even pve only-ers who bought fraywind+9 off broker just for hands/feet) then there simply is no hope.

[Shiyo]

Then what are you supposed to do when you want to offer PvP'ers new content and new gear to strive for?

what

PVP doesn't need "Content" or "gear to strive for" that type of thinking is what completely ruins PVP. Gear from PVP should have NEVER EVEN BEEN THOUGHT ABOUT, especially a "progression" of gear. PVP is infinite content, every single fight is different, you don't need to give rewards, or loot, or anything, it's the satisfaction of killing people, 2vs1ing, 3vs1ing, being better than someone, etc that's the real reward. If you need a carrot dangling in front of you to kill someone, you aren't a real PVPer and don't enjoy PVPing to PVP. What do I gain from winning a match in SC2?A match in DOTA? A match in CS? A match in goldeneye? A match in super smash bros? Nothing, I become a better player, and I have fun winning.

Should PVP give gear equal to PVE? No, then we create huge glaring gear imbalances like we have now in PVP, and we're better off just not giving any gear out in pvp at all, especially when it's so grindy you need to sit down and run bgs for >>MONTHS<< just to be geared enough to do 3v3, then need to do 3v3 for >>MONTHS<< to be fully geared, then once you have it all you can afk in town I guess?

If PVP didn't give gear people would actually do world PVP, bgs would have longer queues but people would go around fighting people in the wo rld and occasionally(when their long queues pop) do some bgs for FUN, and not because they are FORCED to do it for gear. That sounds much better than everyone doing BGS and 3v3 because they need to, and are forced to. Let us get gear from PVE and use it to kill people in PVP, that's far less grindy, and we actually get to do the PVP content we want to, and get to pvp because we WANT to, not because we're forced to do fraywind canyon #350306 for only 500 more credits until last conjuct piece!

I bet if this shitty PVP progression system didn't exist, the imbalances between tiers wouldn't be so huge because you wouldn't be gaining ~10% PVP damage per new tier of gear, or gaining 10%+ PVP dr, and instead you'd only be getting defense/attack, plus it's far faster to get PVE gear than PVP gear.

Putting out PVP gear from PVP, and adding the only way to get gear being from instanced BGs and instanced arenas needs to fucking stop. That shit is archaic as fuck, even people who play WOW don't like that shit, why are we copying horirble WOW ideas in 2013 again? We shouldn't be, it's horrible, unfun, and restrictive. MMO's should be huge open worlds with choices - it shouldn't all force us to do X content for X gear, and only let us gear gear from that one place. That's unfun and no one likes that, it's why nexus is so garbage as well.

You know Blizzard advertised their MOP expansion as "giving the players more choices" "more freedom" and gave ton new ways to get gear? You can also get the best PVp gear in a lot of ways too, even world PVE,dungeons, world PVP, and dailies give conquest points you can buy the best PVP gear with now. GW2 did the same thing at release, letting you do whatever content you wanted to get equal rewards everywhere and easily obtainable/buyable gear from doing any content you enjoyed doing(They stopped doing this now..idk why, they ruined the game and restrict you with bullshit ascended gear but yeah..). So why are we copying failed 2004 formulas in a 2012 game, when a new next gen MMO is evolving that formula, and an old-gen MMO that used to use that formula is CHANGING it for the better?

We shouldn't be, it's stupid. Stop thinking it's right.

Because even when you have the "top gear" your still gonna eat shit and still be screaming about how unfair bg is when your stun locked and you can't do shit. Or how archers are to op yada yada.

The fact that a dev created a MMORPG with stuns and knockdowns, yet didn't add a simple DR system blows my mind. Even with how imbalanced this games PVP is, it's still extremely fun until gear is added into the equation.

[Senji]

what

PVP doesn't need "Content" or "gear to strive for" that type of thinking is what completely ruins PVP. Gear from PVP should have NEVER EVEN BEEN THOUGHT ABOUT, especially a "progression" of gear. PVP is infinite content, every single fight is different, you don't need to give rewards, or loot, or anything, it's the satisfaction of killing people, 2vs1ing, 3vs1ing, being better than someone, etc that's the real reward. If you need a carrot dangling in front of you to kill someone, you aren't a real PVPer and don't enjoy PVPing to PVP. What do I gain from winning a match in SC2?A match in DOTA? A match in CS? A match in goldeneye? A match in super smash bros? Nothing, I become a better player, and I have fun winning.

Should PVP give gear equal to PVE? No, then we create huge glaring gear imbalances like we have now in PVP, and we're better off just not giving any gear out in pvp at all, especially when it's so grindy you need to sit down and run bgs for >>MONTHS<< just to be geared enough to do 3v3, then need to do 3v3 for >>MONTHS<< to be fully geared, then once you have it all you can afk in town I guess?

If PVP didn't give gear people would actually do world PVP, bgs would have longer queues but people would go around fighting people in the wo rld and occasionally(when their long queues pop) do some bgs for FUN, and not because they are FORCED to do it for gear. That sounds much better than everyone doing BGS and 3v3 because they need to, and are forced to. Let us get gear from PVE and use it to kill people in PVP, that's far less grindy, and we actually get to do the PVP content we want to, and get to pvp because we WANT to, not because we're forced to do fraywind canyon #350306 for only 500 more credits until last conjuct piece!

I bet if this shitty PVP progression system didn't exist, the imbalances between tiers wouldn't be so huge because you wouldn't be gaining ~10% PVP damage per new tier of gear, or gaining 10%+ PVP dr, and instead you'd only be getting defense/attack, plus it's far faster to get PVE gear than PVP gear.

General populace requires a [gated progress] carrot to maintain interest, and yet many dont want to pve at all ever for pvp activities. Hence current MMO trends of grind and pvp gear even existing.

If everyone queud arenas; there would be no perceived barrier of entree. There is no ilvl queue requirement.

The fact that a dev created a MMORPG with stuns and knockdowns, yet didn't add a simple DR system blows my mind. Even with how imbalanced this games PVP is, it's still extremely fun until gear is added into the equation.

Balanced cooldowns are all the DR that's needed. An iWin button or timer shouldn't dictate a mechanic working or not. If 10 people want to keep you stunned/slept/knocked down perpetually, then that's the choice of those people. Means you have 9 team mates derping somewhere else.

[Shiyo]

Balanced cooldowns are all the DR that's needed. An iWin button or timer shouldn't dictate a mechanic working or not. If 10 people want to keep you stunned/slept/knocked down perpetually, then that's the choice of those people. Means you have 9 team mates derping somewhere else.

what

You should never ever ever ever be able to be stunned/CCed 100% to 0% without any type of DR kicking in. EVER. It's not fun, it takes no skill, it makes things completely broken, it's horrible design, and it makes everything take less skill/thinking because you can mindlessly mash your CC every time it's up without thinking of DR timers or if it'll be DRed. It just makes the game so much worse in literally every way possible, there is NOTHING good about it. It doesn't add a single positive thing to PVP.

[Senji]

what

You should never ever ever ever be able to be stunned/CCed 100% to 0% without any type of DR kicking in. EVER. How can you honestly post something like that?

Priest is like a 5 sec sleep on 30 sec cooldown. If 6 priests time it correctly, and they so so chose; they could keep 1 player slept indefinitely. However they would be unable to sleep anyone else.

Sorc roots 1 person for 4 secs. Sorc can root 2 people at once for 2 secs each AND the resist rate increases so 1 or both may not even be rooted.

If 100 sorcs all cast hailstorm in a line covering 1000 meters, and some retard wants to run through the whole thing [provided they live through the damage] after 8 secs, the retard should NOT be able to return running at normal speed through the rest.

If 1000 people all stagger their stun on 1 person, that means 999 other people did not get targeted with a stun and should be doing something.

Shit isnt hard.

DR/iWin buttons are unneeded and a crutch for lazy devs that don't want to balance.

[Shiyo]

Congratulations, you're the first person(and probably the only person) who will ever argue that CC's/stuns/knockdowns shouldn't have a DR.

[Senji]

Congratulations, you're the first person(and probably the only person) who will ever argue that CC's/stuns/knockdowns shouldn't have a DR.

Real PVP enthusiasts don't want DR. Only bads.

If no one values your characters life to cover/peel off you if you're being CCed, that's your personal problem.

If you get CC zerged; you were either unlucky or positioned poorly, that's your personal problem.

[GoggleHead]

General populace requires a [gated progress] carrot to maintain interest

Then your PvP is shit and you need to stop being fucking terrible at game design.

[Anakron]

I don't think you can really compare PvP in RTS, FPS, etc., to PvP in MMOs, because people play them for different reasons.

Perhaps the the biggest selling point of MMOs is continuous progression, whether it's from practical gear, vanity items, or even social interaction. It's the idea that what you do for the next 30 minutes will have a tangible effect later on that keeps you going. Sure, having fun is great and it'd be awesome if PvP being fun alone were enough to motivate people, but changing PvP in MMOs to suddenly be like the other games where admittedly one match has no impact on the next (outside of learning) probably wouldn't go over quite well with most MMO folks.

[Lokus]

I'm sorry Shiyo, but you honestly lost me when you mentioned meriting as viable content for your trouble of acquiring the best gear available. I'm certain many people would be ecstatic to use a Masamune to slay countless rabbits as opposed to something that would need the best gear because it's literally balanced towards having the creme of the crop. I'm also not understanding why just because a game is advertised as ACTION MMO, it means it can't have a holy trinity paradigm. The action relates to how you interact with the content, PvE and PvP, and how much weight your personal choices have as opposed to having the game calculate the choices for you. Blocking as a lancer all comes down to personal reaction not rolling the dice. The same with dodging and hitting an enemy.

I do agree though that having PvP gear as progression is kinda asinine but like Anakron said, it's a staple of MMOs that people -want- as stupid as it is. People want to be rewarded for playing longer than someone else so in that respect, actual PvP takes a backseat to gear progression. Look at the awful state of 3v3s. Once someone gets 1200 rating, they'd grind BGs for the points to get the gear (fixed with today's patch thankfully). For the most part, MMO players cry out for balanced PvP but their actions pretty much speak gear carry. GW2 is a perfect example of this with how PvP works in that game. It wasn't everyone's cup of tea because some people didn't see any progression in it so clearly just the "fun" of PvP wasn't enough to hold their interest.

You are however exaggerating when it comes to grinding for gear. Just look at your server (LoT). People obviously didn't spend >>MONTHS<< grinding to get Conjunct, a grind that is completely nerfed now compared to release. People need a perspective change when it comes to PvP in Tera. Think of gear sets as weight classes and suddenly it makes sense. BGs are completely imbalanced because match making mixes all the weight classes. 3v3s right now only have 1 "weight class" queuing for it which throws off the entire rating system causing people to think you need VM/Conjunct to compete. You don't. That gear is only needed if you want to compete at the top. Balance ain't perfect of course but when you have companies that specialize in fighting games that aren't able to balance their games perfectly, what makes you think a MMO company can?

[Eddard]

I like the new nexus... don't like Mount Tyrannus already crashing from it lol.

Edit: I hate it when ppl break the group inside of a damn NT.... just wasted my Nexus calling and slapped with the 2hr no entry (even though only 1 nexus today).... so dumb...

[Tellahh]

madmadmadmadmad

so much mad...
It wasn't that hard pre-f2p to start on MT and get geared up at 60... it just separates the plebs from people that actually give a damn..
on LoT sure it's probably a lot harder cause everyone's starting from scratch but damn dude, Conjunct isn't THAT impossible to get if you can at least make Nexus
if you get rolled in BGs so much (which is what it sounds like), try to make premades to group and get a healer that gives a fuck...

or you can just

Spoiler: show

lol

edit; holy shit at the references to WoW playerbase bitching and the devs spoiling them in regards to a Korean MMO, fucking loool