Mexican Immigration Comes To Standstill

[hey]

Pretty sure drug violence is historically high in Mexico right now.

Amazing.

[archibaldcrane]

In January 2012, the Mexican government reported that 47,515 people had been killed in drug-related violence since President Felipe Calderón began a military assault on criminal cartels soon after taking office in late 2006.

The official tally provided by the attorney general’s office included data only through September 2011, and it showed that drug-related killings increased 11 percent, to 12,903, compared with the same nine-month period in 2010. Still, a government statement sought to find a silver lining, asserting that it was the first year since 2006 “that the homicide rate increase has been lower compared to the previous years.”

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[archibaldcrane]

Amazing.

Lol puntacular accident.

[Jonny]

its actually in a Decline Archi and the number is above 50,000 now. Most reports actually indicate that the drug cartels are in a sorry state from being at war with each other and the Army.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....-the-drug-war/

[archibaldcrane]

If the number of drug related killings has gone up every year from 06-11, I'm going to need to see some sustained reductions to believe the tide of drug violence has turned. Your article says the same thing - drug violence, right now, is at an all time high. Plateauing at a peak isn't a victory lol.

[Jonny]

I never said it was a Victory, its a step forward.
I also hate this drug war as most people do since Prohibition never worked. Was just stating reasons why Mexicans are moving back to Mexico, i never wanted to get into a debate about the Drug War.

In the last three years alone, using this strategy, the Mexican government has captured or killed over 40 major cartel leaders; key players who are not easily replaced. Several of the cartels have already been severely weakened or destroyed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/op...er16.html?_r=1

[archibaldcrane]

You said it was in decline, then posted that violence is up 8% over the previous year. I agree that the cartels are hurting. When business is good in the drug trade you don't see a lot of violence.

I just don't know if wounding a bunch of animals is going to make things safer. You can't win a drug war.

[hey]

You can't win a drug war.

Sure you can.

All you have to do is end it.

[Pirian]

The bolded relates to the US getting worse, and the underlined you just made up. You made 5 points:
1) cost of moving. This relates to both the usa and mexico.
2) better employment oppurtunities in mexico. This relates only to mexico.
3) less drug violence. This relates only to mexico, but you just made it up based on nothing, so i'm going to ignore this.
4) US laws treat them like shit. This relates only to the usa.
5) us economy sucks. This relates only to the usa.

3/5 of these are related to the usa, and 2/5 (2/4 really since 1 is invalid) have nothing to do with mexico.

Explain how that is 1/4.

Spoiler: show

I read your whole post

See, I can work with this Much better.

The cost of moving was the main point, and the 4 things following it were the supporting points for this -- that is where I got the 4 points. I'll only address the points you labeled (3) and (4) because the other two we seem to agree on (well, I don't agree on (5) that the US economy sucks beyond construction[err, OK, it sucks if you're not educated beyond high school]).

So for point (3), it was my understanding that the drug violence has become very isolated. If that's not better, than I don't know what is. I didn't mean to imply that it was all gone, but rather that the average Mexican isn't worrying about it to the point where they feel that they need to flee their war-torn country.

Point (4) is true, but to say that this has to do with the US getting shittier is a matter of opinion. I do think that gaining a tighter boarder would make the US better, so that wouldn't be "making the US shittier", in my opinion. But since this one could be a matter of opinion, I'll concede that it could be making the US shittier, but I still think it's a tough argument to make that the US is better off with the 11million or so illegal immigrants it has

[hey]

Point (4) is true, but to say that this has to do with the US getting shittier is a matter of opinion. I do think that gaining a tighter boarder would make the US better, so that wouldn't be "making the US shittier", in my opinion. But since this one could be a matter of opinion, I'll concede that it could be making the US shittier, but I still think it's a tough argument to make that the US is better off with the 11million or so illegal immigrants it has

It's not a matter of opinion at all. It is objectively worse for the mexicans, which are the only people who are relevant to this thread.

well, I don't agree on (5) that the US economy sucks beyond construction[err, OK, it sucks if you're not educated beyond high school]).

Again, this thread is about Mexicans, not americans. If construction isn't doing well, and that's what most mexicans are doing, then as far as the Mexicans are concerned, it sucks.

[Jefe]

Last time I checked the unemployment rate was around 4.8%. They also have universal health care. So there's no reason to come over here. I don't have ICE's statistics atm, but clandestine crossings from Mexicans are in the toilet compared to Central American, Asian, and European countries. Regarding violence, the vast majority are narco-related, but yeah sometimes innocent souls get caught in the xfire.

[Pirian]

It's not a matter of opinion at all. It is objectively worse for the mexicans, which are the only people who are relevant to this thread.

Again, this thread is about Mexicans, not americans. If construction isn't doing well, and that's what most mexicans are doing, then as far as the Mexicans are concerned, it sucks.

The thread may be about Mexicans, but we were talking about something different, or have you forgotten?

Spoiler: show

It wasn't sad when eastern European immigration came to a "standstill", it wasn't sad when Canadian immigration came to a "standstill", and it isn't sad that Mexican immigration has come to a "standstill" (I put all these in quotations, because there is still immigration coming from all these areas, it's just either immigration/emigration neutral or deficit [there aren't many places we are a immigration/emigration deficit, though]). All this means is that we will start receiving more immigration from another area. We should be happy that our neighbor to the south is doing well enough that its citizens are not literally fleeing! Even if that is because the US is doing "worse"

If this is because Mexico is an awesome place, then it is great news.

If on the other hand, it's more because the us just sucks that bad, then it's terrible.

You said this in response to me saying that we shouldn't be worried that we're receiving less immigration from Mexico, and then I gave reasons for why we shouldn't be worried about less immigration from Mexico. It wasn't about whether or not Mexicans thought the US sucked, or the US was bad for Mexicans. It was about whether or not less immigration from Mexico meant the US was sucking more, and/or Mexico sucking less.

[hey]

The thread may be about Mexicans, but we were talking about something different, or have you forgotten?



You said this in response to me saying that we shouldn't be worried that we're receiving less immigration from Mexico, and then I gave reasons for why we shouldn't be worried about less immigration from Mexico. It wasn't about whether or not Mexicans thought the US sucked, or the US was bad for Mexicans. It was about whether or not less immigration from Mexico meant the US was sucking more, and/or Mexico sucking less.

I don't think you can really extrapolate that. Just because the US sucks for Mexicans does not necessarily mean it does for Americans. Arguably the biggest problems faced by Mexicans in the US do not exist for Americans.

[Pirian]

I don't think you can really extrapolate that. Just because the US sucks for Mexicans does not necessarily mean it does for Americans. Arguably the biggest problems faced by Mexicans in the US do not exist for Americans.

I'm sorry, I have no idea what this has to do with why the US shouldn't worry about stagnating immigration from Mexico.

[hey]

I'm sorry, I have no idea what this has to do with why the US shouldn't worry about stagnating immigration from Mexico.

Well if you don't give a shit about people who didn't happen to be born inside the US borders, and think people should be locked in where ever they were born, then it doesn't, and you shouldn't care that less people are immigrating from mexico to the US.

[Pirian]

Well if you don't give a shit about people who didn't happen to be born inside the US borders, and think people should be locked in where ever they were born, then it doesn't, and you shouldn't care that less people are immigrating from mexico to the US.

First, who said people should be locked into what country they're born in? We still have higher immigration from Mexico than from anywhere else in the world. This is not always going to be the case, and I'm OK with this. This doesn't mean I think that Mexicans should be locked in Mexico, and shame on you for somehow deriving that from what I said . I don't care any more than I care that eastern European immigration is a fraction of what it once was. I don't care any more than I care that Canadian immigration is a fraction of what it once was.

This is all in my first post, though.

[hey]

First, who said people should be locked into what country they're born in? We still have higher immigration from Mexico than from anywhere else in the world. This is not always going to be the case, and I'm OK with this. This doesn't mean I think that Mexicans should be locked in Mexico, and shame on you for somehow deriving that from what I said . I don't care any more than I care that eastern European immigration is a fraction of what it once was. I don't care any more than I care that Canadian immigration is a fraction of what it once was.

This is all in my first post, though.

I do think that gaining a tighter boarder would make the US better, so that wouldn't be "making the US shittier", in my opinion. But since this one could be a matter of opinion, I'll concede that it could be making the US shittier, but I still think it's a tough argument to make that the US is better off with the 11million or so illegal immigrants it has

Ok.

[Pirian]

Is that suppose to be contradicting, because I don't see it? Stopping Illegal immigration != stopping legal immigration, so why are you trying to make that argument?

[hey]

Well they're not locked in Mexico, they just can't come here.

[Pirian]

Sorry for that late edit. I never write what I really mean the first time