DPS Spreadsheets

[noodles355]

Your melee weapons will be affecting your WS frequency. It'll also be increasing WS damage on Last Stand through TP overflow.

[Seha]

/blu I'll have to look into to find what stats to add.

If you still need, this is the spell list for cor/blu:
Foot kick
Battle dance
Smite of rage
Mysterious light
Uppercut
Cursed sphere
Sound blast
Stinking gas
Refueling
Chaotic eye
Bomb toss

Give traits MAB I and Attack bonus I other than the associated stats.

[Viar]

Your melee weapons will be affecting your WS frequency. It'll also be increasing WS damage on Last Stand through TP overflow.

Unless I'm doing it wrong it's been calculating WS dmg based on melee weapons as if I'm using melee WS not ranged WS. I'll try again later using the new one.

[Motenten]

Unless I'm doing it wrong it's been calculating WS dmg based on melee weapons as if I'm using melee WS not ranged WS. I'll try again later using the new one.

Are you referring to the weaponskill damage shown on the melee Gear page, the ranged Gear page, or on the Setup page? The melee Gear page will always show the damage of the melee weaponskill, regardless of the fight style you're using. The ranged Gear page will likewise always show the ranged weaponskill damage, even if you're in melee-only mode. The Setup page will selectively show the weaponskill damage of the weaponskill you actually choose to use.

If, for example, you have the fight style as ranged-only, and you're looking at the melee Gear page and change some of your weaponskill gear, you'll see the weaponskill damage number change, but the overall set DPS won't. That's because the melee weaponskill isn't being counted in overall DPS.

[Jem]

WAR spreadsheet

Hunter's Acc isn't added to Acc.
Patentia Sash gives 0% Dual Wield instead of 5%
No Suppa

And a bigger problem to fix which is kinda meh and not sure how much it will be used so not sure if it's worth it. Atm WAR's best offhand weapon is a Sword (Hala Sword) but you can't easily factor that in. I got around it by adding it in as an Axe and then applying -Acc and -Attack but obviously that's not representative as it applies the -acc and -attk to the main hand too.

[Motenten]

WAR spreadsheet

Hunter's Acc isn't added to Acc.
Patentia Sash gives 0% Dual Wield instead of 5%
No Suppa

And a bigger problem to fix which is kinda meh and not sure how much it will be used so not sure if it's worth it. Atm WAR's best offhand weapon is a Sword (Hala Sword) but you can't easily factor that in. I got around it by adding it in as an Axe and then applying -Acc and -Attack but obviously that's not representative as it applies the -acc and -attk to the main hand too.

Bugs fixed. Rebuilt to handle multiple weapon types for dual-wielding.

[Fival]

WAR spreadsheet

Played with the dual wield additions added yesterday, and noticed when offhanding a sword, and adding sword skill merits, the DPS is not affected. Checked data page and Hand 2 skill remains 398 regardless of how much sword skill is added through merits.

Edit: Tried with dual wielding 2 axes as well, and adding axe merits, only the main hand had skill added.

[Jem]

Hasso bonuses are also applied even when not SAM sub if you toggle it on. Or at least some of them are as it increases DPS. Not sure if that's normal.

I assume Embrava is still giving regain too since it increases DPS even with SV Marches + Haste.

EDIT: Also, not to be a pain but could you add Dagger support too please. I just tried out Aphotic Kukri but using Sword skill and it seems to be a DPS gain. Presumably only if Acc/Atk capped though.

[Motenten]

WAR spreadsheet

Played with the dual wield additions added yesterday, and noticed when offhanding a sword, and adding sword skill merits, the DPS is not affected. Checked data page and Hand 2 skill remains 398 regardless of how much sword skill is added through merits.

Edit: Tried with dual wielding 2 axes as well, and adding axe merits, only the main hand had skill added.

Fixed. The offhand merit lookup was pointing at the wrong cells of the main page.

Hasso bonuses are also applied even when not SAM sub if you toggle it on. Or at least some of them are as it increases DPS. Not sure if that's normal.

I assume Embrava is still giving regain too since it increases DPS even with SV Marches + Haste.

EDIT: Also, not to be a pain but could you add Dagger support too please. I just tried out Aphotic Kukri but using Sword skill and it seems to be a DPS gain. Presumably only if Acc/Atk capped though.

Hasso accuracy and haste properly checked for /sam, but str did not. Fixed.

Removed Embrava regain. Will fix other spreadsheets as well as I get around to them.

Dagger added to war spreadsheet.

[Motenten]

Built a spreadsheet for handling gear comparisons for magic damage, since that's been bugging me lately. On the Gear page it shows the damage (or damage per MP) value for all tiers of all elements, so you can see how damage is affected across the entire range of spell options. It highlights the better of the two gear sets' damage in green.

Notes:

1) Uses the new magic formulas (currently on the test server), not the current ones.
2) Is set for any of the four major nuking jobs: Blm, Sch, Geo, Rdm. Because of this, gear isn't guaranteed to be usable for the currently selected job. Account for that if building gear sets.
3) Still lots of things missing. Doesn't handle Meteor/Comet/Impact/Kaustra/Helixes. Doesn't handle Blm AF3 set bonus.
4) Doesn't account for resistance rates (though it does have magic accuracy field in place for later).
5) Doesn't yet account for a real "DPS" value. Fast Cast field is in place for future calculations.
6) Doesn't account for Magic Burst damage, or gear boosts for that.
7) Handles Magical critical hits and Conserve MP proc averages. Handles MP savings for Dark Arts (or costs for Light Arts).
8) Does account for MP savings of Seidr body.


The exchange rate between Int and MAB varies widely across spell and element tiers. In the new formulas, the higher the spell tier, the more MAB is favored, and the closer you get to the Thunder line the more MAB is favored. The opposite is true in the other direction.

For AM and AM2, MAB is almost always preferred. For anything else, the majority of spells tend to favor Int, for the typical values you can get in any given slot.

The 'lower' elements (Stone, Water, Air) are significantly more MP efficient than the 'higher' elements (Fire, Ice, Thunder). At the extreme ends, Stone tends to be 40% to 50% more MP efficient than Thunder (not counting the first tier singles or -gas, where Stone/Stonega is 3-7 times more MP efficient than Thunder/Thundaga).

There are four 'tiers's of Int. dInt of less than 0 (currently uses the same value per point of int as the 0-50 dInt tier, though this hasn't been validated); dInt between 0 and 50; dInt between 50 and 100; and dInt between 100 and 200. dInt above 200 doesn't add any additional damage.

Example:

In the 0-50 dInt range, For Stone V, 10 Int ~= 12 MAB; for Thunder V, 10 Int ~= 6 MAB.
In the 50-100 dInt range, For Stone V, 10 Int ~= 8 MAB; for Thunder V, 10 Int ~= 5 MAB.


The old rule of thumb for 2 Int ~= 1 MAB gets completely thrown out the window, except maybe for Thunder V and a couple nearby spells. On the Stone side of things, it's closer to 1 Int ~= 1 MAB at tier 5. At lower tiers, it can be more skewed towards Int -- 1 Int ~= 2 MAB to 1 Int ~= 4 MAB. Optimal nuking sets change from spell to spell, though there's a trend over the entire grid.

Augmented Soothsayer and Lehbrailg staves beat out Magian staves for large swaths of spells, partly because often you'll want to use Int instead of MAB, so the multiplying factor of Magian staves' affinity has less to work with.

It will be interesting seeing how people will manage gear sets after this change.

[Taim Meich]

This... This is... This is just beautiful, thank you very very much!

You know that I was starting to do the same? In fact, I just entered BG to check the new spell values, and found this. Of course, my project was much less ambitious and was in it's infancy, so please, let me a moment to toss it to the recycle bin...

...Okay, done.


The spreadsheet looks great, lots of the ideas I had in mind for mine are here, like the two sets comparing each spell and highlighting the best one. I see you haven't added many specific terms, like Ebullience and the bonus Savant's Bonnet +2 provides, the bonus to damage Savant's Loafers +2 provide when Klimaform and the corrresponding element are up, or as you said, the bonuses to Magic Burst several pieces of gear and AM2 merits have.

In the monster section, knowing it's W.I.P., of course, an extra column with Magic Damage Taken should be added, to account for the different species, like Flans receiving 25% more magic damage, or Magic pots receiving 25% less.

The damage - Damage/MP cell is protected, along with the rest of the sheet, so can't be modified without removing the protection.


The advantages of INT are really apparent now, thankfully I have plenty of INT gear thanks to Helix spells. It's going to be interesting gearing for normal nukes now, and even more interesting judging which element to use in each case.

Thanks again, you're the best!

[Motenten]

The damage - Damage/MP cell is protected, along with the rest of the sheet, so can't be modified without removing the protection.

Woops, fixed.

Added:

MDT term for mobs.
Magic Burst damage, including gear.
AM2 merits.
Ebullience, including Savant hat.
Klimaform bonus damage with Savant feet.
Goetia set bonus.

Had to rearrange the order of columns for the gear. Not particularly happy about it, but necessary in order to keep an appropriate amount of space available for the damage results while also being able to read what each column is for.

[noodles355]

Could you add an option for AGI merits in the Thf spreadsheet please?

Edit: Also, I'm playing around with the Thf spreadsheet and there's a few things:

Firstly, if you put Mandau in the offhand it still gives the +40 Attack when it shouldn't. I created a new dagger in gear list with the same dmg/delay as mandau but without the 40 attack to simulate offhanding it because of this. However, if I put Mandau(99) mainhand it has the same DPS as if I put the my created offhand-mandau in the main slot and add +40Attack into the custom line. This suggests that the Relic triple damage bonus is not being applied.

Edit2: Also, I'm not sure Trick Attack is accounting for Haste or Dual Wield. After noticing some pieces weren't doing as well as they should, I tried just adding some haste or DW into the custom row. Adding either didn't increase TA Dmg/TA round dmg/Melee DPS/Total DPS. Obviously if you're full-time engaged that's wrong.
I checked the SA page quickly and added some haste/DW into the custom row there and it increases Melee DPS/Total DPS so the problem is purely with the trick attack page.

Edit3: Adding Store TP also does nothing for SA and TA. Obviously it will have an effect too.

[ccl]

War spreedsheet doesn't seems to cap delay with dual wield, I tried to add dual wield by 1%, and I always saw increase (went up to 80% dual wield just to be sure) this with march/haste/haste samba.

[Motenten]

Could you add an option for AGI merits in the Thf spreadsheet please?

Added.

Edit: Also, I'm playing around with the Thf spreadsheet and there's a few things:

Firstly, if you put Mandau in the offhand it still gives the +40 Attack when it shouldn't. I created a new dagger in gear list with the same dmg/delay as mandau but without the 40 attack to simulate offhanding it because of this. However, if I put Mandau(99) mainhand it has the same DPS as if I put the my created offhand-mandau in the main slot and add +40Attack into the custom line. This suggests that the Relic triple damage bonus is not being applied.

Triple damage bonus isn't directly applied. It's done via the ODD setting on the Setup page. I'll see if there's anything I can do about the offhand.

Edit2: Also, I'm not sure Trick Attack is accounting for Haste or Dual Wield. After noticing some pieces weren't doing as well as they should, I tried just adding some haste or DW into the custom row. Adding either didn't increase TA Dmg/TA round dmg/Melee DPS/Total DPS. Obviously if you're full-time engaged that's wrong. I checked the SA page quickly and added some haste/DW into the custom row there and it increases Melee DPS/Total DPS so the problem is purely with the trick attack page.

Haste and DW should have no effect at all on TA Dmg/TA Round Dmg. It -does- affect Melee DPS if SA/TA are set for Solo, and that of course leads to it affecting Total DPS. The default download at the moment has SA on Solo and TA on None, so if you didn't change that then of course changes in haste/DW on the TA page won't affect melee damage.

Edit3: Adding Store TP also does nothing for SA and TA. Obviously it will have an effect too.

Unfortunately it's somewhat impractical to account for them at this time. I'd need to set up multiple scenarios for TP return depending on whether an SA or TA round occurred, and tie that to the probability of each per weaponskill (which likely risks circular references in the spreadsheet).

I've set up a bit of baseline code (computation only; not tied into the results), and even substantial amounts of Store TP won't have much impact on the final result. I'll probably continue to work on it, but it'll be a while before completion.


Also, got rid of the old thf.xls file since I never really work on it anymore anyway. Thf2.xls has been renamed as thf.xls, and is now the only version.

War spreedsheet doesn't seems to cap delay with dual wield, I tried to add dual wield by 1%, and I always saw increase (went up to 80% dual wield just to be sure) this with march/haste/haste samba.

Fixed.

[Jem]

Oh god, that could be disappointing if my WAR figures were only ever that high because they were bypassing overall delay cap.

How much Dual Wield is needed with Capped Magic Haste + Capped Gear Haste before you hit the delay cap?

[Taim Meich]

Hm, in the Mage spreadsheet, INT merits are counted twice: both in B5 and B29 of the Data sheet.

Also, maybe you could add in the buffs section a +7/+12 INT bonus if Cryohelix was cast without/with augmented AF2+2 feet. Meanwhile, just adding the correct amount in the custom line works perfectly fine.

[Motenten]

Oh god, that could be disappointing if my WAR figures were only ever that high because they were bypassing overall delay cap.

How much Dual Wield is needed with Capped Magic Haste + Capped Gear Haste before you hit the delay cap?

36%. If you just had /nin + Suppa, you're probably safe on the numbers.

[Motenten]

Hm, in the Mage spreadsheet, INT merits are counted twice: both in B5 and B29 of the Data sheet.

Also, maybe you could add in the buffs section a +7/+12 INT bonus if Cryohelix was cast without/with augmented AF2+2 feet. Meanwhile, just adding the correct amount in the custom line works perfectly fine.

Fixed the double-merit issue. Added Hailstorm buff under Other Player/Sch section.

[Taim Meich]

Second set still has the double merit issue >_<