What's Better?

[dasva]

If your melee acc is fine with swd and dagger your last stand should be fine given marksmanship is right between dagger and swd skill wise and you should be throwing tons of agi into your ws set.

For someone not arguing expense you sure brought up gil toss a lot... as far as light shot goes you are already said you aren't pulling much anyways. And besides every plasm farm I've been in involved pulling multiple mobs and brds aoe sleeping because of that. Lightshot is just a waste of dmg.

Expecting a super gimp cor to make a good melee set is probably not going to happen you are right there. But that holds true for your dual wielding /dnc set as well. Can't play it both ways

[dasva]

I really should get a proper cor spreadsheet done, huh?

Please and if you could rng too. I'd love you forever

[Viar]

If your melee acc is fine with swd and dagger your last stand should be fine given marksmanship is right between dagger and swd skill wise and you should be throwing tons of agi into your ws set.

For someone not arguing expense you sure brought up gil toss a lot... as far as light shot goes you are already said you aren't pulling much anyways. And besides every plasm farm I've been in involved pulling multiple mobs and brds aoe sleeping because of that. Lightshot is just a waste of dmg.

Expecting a super gimp cor to make a good melee set is probably not going to happen you are right there. But that holds true for your dual wielding /dnc set as well. Can't play it both ways

Last stand accuracy isn't the main reason I'm arguing against it, harder to get enough attack due to dispel/mages don't dia is. WF is also easier to buff with fire shot+firestorm from SCH or WHM/SCH, and doesn't need a pimp BRD for it. Some jobs gets benefit from haste samba doesn't help /WAR last stand build. You're sacrificing extra TP dmg for higher WS dmg, so your WS dmg has to be much higher than WF to make up for it.

If a COR wants to make melee TP set, but he has no idea about how to make one for delve fodder evasion, and he doesn't have high rank path B augment on melee weapon, fat chances are he's probably going to do better with native acc bonus, that's what I mean by /DNC TP set easier to build.

I really should get a proper cor spreadsheet done, huh?

Yes please! Would love a COR spreadsheet that also includes QD damage every 40 sec~1 min!

[dasva]

Last stand accuracy isn't the main reason I'm arguing against it, harder to get enough attack due to dispel/mages don't dia is. WF is also easier to buff with fire shot+firestorm from SCH or WHM/SCH, and doesn't need a pimp BRD for it. Some jobs gets benefit from haste samba doesn't help /WAR last stand build. You're sacrificing extra TP dmg for higher WS dmg, so your WS dmg has to be much higher than WF to make up for it

It is easier to buff wf without a brd true... but then the fireshot wf argument kinda points you back to rdm. I can't spreadsheet right now but I can't imagine dw2 and acc bonus adding that much more tp dmg over fencer bergressor att bonus and DA especially when you already making the att starved argument. Even if berserk isn't enough to push last stand ahead of wf it will add a lot to your tp dmg

Sounds more like your argument is that /dnc isn't the worst at anything so it can adapt better if you have no idea what you going into and wont lose out in some ways some subs would under certain circumstances. However if you know what you are doing you can optimize with another sub

[Viar]

It is easier to buff wf without a brd true... but then the fireshot wf argument kinda points you back to rdm. I can't spreadsheet right now but I can't imagine dw2 and acc bonus adding that much more tp dmg over fencer bergressor att bonus and DA especially when you already making the att starved argument. Even if berserk isn't enough to push last stand ahead of wf it will add a lot to your tp dmg

I got /DNC being 50ish DPS ahead when berserk/aggressor down and 20ish ahead when it's up from spreadsheet. If haste samba is dispelled then it's worse TP dmg than berserk up but still better than berserk down, but it's much easier to reapply haste samba.

Although there may be a better single wield TP set since I haven't seriously look into single wield TP set yet(Tried both skadi +1 and thaumas 4/5+haste head for single wield TP, also used DA set earring) One argument against /WAR is berserk dispel from eft though, unless you go in and parse I don't see how you can get an accurate berserk duration avg.

[dasva]

Would say slightly easier to replace samba on average though it costs you tp so if you are risking dispel samba can actually be a loss of dps especially if you spent some of that time buffing or pulling. Out of curiosity what buffs food mob etc you use. Also what spreedsheet? Though there wasn't a cor one. And was that overall dps or tp

[Viar]

Would say slightly easier to replace samba on average though it costs you tp so if you are risking dispel samba can actually be a loss of dps especially if you spent some of that time buffing or pulling. Out of curiosity what buffs food mob etc you use. Also what spreedsheet? Though there wasn't a cor one. And was that overall dps or tp

I usually use sushi for plasm farm. I just use BLU spreadsheet and mess with spells stat/job trait and negative dagger/sword skill until it's close to COR stat. COR seems to have 6 more DEX than BLU but STR is the same, so only +DEX spell needed. The exact DPS result may* be a bit off because it's different job after all and I may be missing something, but I doubt it'd be that much different to make /WAR getting higher DPS than /DNC with/without dispel. Also spreadsheet result shows my current set was a bit below acc cap without hunter and parse result is about the same too, so I don't think it's THAT off. Target is "delve fodder", that's the correct one isn't it? I only checked TP DPS but not WS/QD.

[dasva]

Yeah hard to change it to reflect the right diff in acc with diff weapon types

[Viar]

Yeah hard to change it to reflect the right diff in acc with diff weapon types

How does difference in acc affects it besides sword skill+ suppa? Negative skill on sword/dagger won't work? Not possible to just add hit rate% manually after final result? Regardless of acc difference, when I checked /WAR v.s /DNC DPS I added acc song to cap them all to avoid acc issue. If I have huge acc issue I probably won't bother with a SJ without acc bonus.

[dasva]

Didn't realize you could just add skill like that... though that said blu doesn't have dagger skill. But I meant that for cor dagger has 16 more skill then swd. So on swd accuracy bonus is only nets you 6 acc over single wield dagger with agressor down. Well 11 with suppa Though you capped so wont matter.

[Sechs]

How about you split and make a COR thread to better organize all this information? This has been going on for how many pages now? I lost count.

[Dotsudoku]

How dare you all discuss what's better in the What's Better thread

[Esvedium]

How dare you all discuss what's better in the What's Better thread

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002..._2_xlarge.jpeg

[Sechs]

It was more about the emonerdrage of "my opinion is better than yours" which, even if in a polite and almost-enjoyable way, went on for too long, didn't it?
I mean, I always imagined this thread as something to discuss "what's better" things in a fast and efficient way.
If you want to go on 5 pages discussing the same thing you might as well open a specific thread and go wild about it?

Might just be my (wrong) view on the topic though.
Please accept my apologies if that's the case.

[Kohan]

Might just be my (wrong) view on the topic though.
Please accept my apologies if that's the case.

No, you are correct. It's something that I was debating, as I thought that this discussion could go in the Delve thread, which is where people talk about optimizing themselves and their groups for the event itself... but then, it may have buried other Delve discussion, and people wouldn't have wanted it there. At the same time, it would be too short-lived to warrant its own thread.

Of course, by continuing to talk about it, we're perpetuating the discussion even further. For now, I'd say let's wait until someone who wants to argue against accepted wisdom has a substantial argument, and then they can acceptably post about it again.

[GeneyusTitan]

Current best mnk sets for delve farming and bosses?

I guess don't include legion gear as it would take me forever to get.

Middle ranks on delve stuff is ok!

[Cyprias]

Current best mnk sets for delve farming and bosses?

I guess don't include legion gear as it would take me forever to get.

Middle ranks on delve stuff is ok!

Depending on the update, this may change though.

Something like this for bosses:

rigor/-/-/honed tath
manibozho/ziel/da7ears
manibozho/melee+2/mars'/epona's
letalis/hastebelt/manibozho/manibozho

possibly? Just speculating, not sure if it is the best acc setup right now (since you mention middle rank delve is OK).

For farm runs, just run with sushi and use the usual setup:

rigor/-/-/potestas
usu+1/asperity/da7ears
thaumas/tenryu+1(miodio/brego OK)/rajas/epona
atheling(orletalis)/windbuffet/manibozho/usu+1

Works for me, anyway.

[Fake]

For the normal NMs

Rigor/-/-/Honed
Usu+1/Ziel/Steelflash/Bladeborn
Thaumas/Tenryu+1/Mars's/Epona's
Letalis/Anguinus/Manibozho/Usu+1

with sushi and relevant cor/brd buffs (these will vary by NM) is enough to cap.

Nakuuls would benefit from the massive acc setups but for everything else and below, the above set is notably more DPS.

[grevenilvec75]

For Upheaval:

Assuming I needed ACC , Ogier's Breeches or mikinaak Cuisses with ~8 acc augment? I'm guessing miki?

[fatty]

Looking at building either an Annihilator or a Yoichi. Is there one that has a distinct advantage over the other? I do have Apex Arrow merited but I can also get Last Stand. Also have Speleogen Bow if that's relevant at all.