What's Better?

[TacoTaru]

Looking at the stats, I'm not sure why I ever used Loki's in the first place. I guess it was just in the XML I took and I forgot to change it out. What is typically the other augment for Moonshade, accuracy or attack?

Also this may be a stupid question, but what is considered a perfect augment for Byakkos? Is it just the crit hit damage or does it need maxed crit and something else?

[Slycer]

Nuking bodies:

Nares Saio
Savant's Gown +2
Morrigan's Robe +1

Can anyone think of any situation where your (nuking) magic accuracy isn't hard capped that you'd use Morrigan's Robe +1 over either of those other options? The accuracy/damage trade-off seems difficult to make up in other slots, which would mean Morrigan's +1 gets relegated to nuking trash mobs and giving +2 MP refresh on SCH. Am I missing something (I don't think I am, but just wondering if anyone has put something together where accuracy is a factor using Morrigan's +1 body on nukes)? This isn't specifically a SCH question, but there isn't anything job-specific worth throwing into the comparison for BLM or RDM.

[mdkuser]

Looking at the stats, I'm not sure why I ever used Loki's in the first place. I guess it was just in the XML I took and I forgot to change it out. What is typically the other augment for Moonshade, accuracy or attack?

Also this may be a stupid question, but what is considered a perfect augment for Byakkos? Is it just the crit hit damage or does it need maxed crit and something else?

dont make a TP bonus moonshade for mnk. regain/att is much better.

[Darkmagi]

Much better?lolno, also ignoring every other job in the game.

[Prothescar]

Let's completely ignore the benefit of TP Bonus via the glory of French Sums

[mdkuser]

I said for MNK. and yes its much better. Never mind the fact it's completly useless for non-empy MNK.

Regain moonshade improves your WS damage by ~4.5% while TP bonus only improves it by ~1% over str+4 earring. Yes its much better.

[Taim Meich]

Nuking bodies:

Nares Saio
Savant's Gown +2
Morrigan's Robe +1

Can anyone think of any situation where your (nuking) magic accuracy isn't hard capped that you'd use Morrigan's Robe +1 over either of those other options? The accuracy/damage trade-off seems difficult to make up in other slots, which would mean Morrigan's +1 gets relegated to nuking trash mobs and giving +2 MP refresh on SCH. Am I missing something (I don't think I am, but just wondering if anyone has put something together where accuracy is a factor using Morrigan's +1 body on nukes)? This isn't specifically a SCH question, but there isn't anything job-specific worth throwing into the comparison for BLM or RDM.

I can't think of a situation (other han the macc capped trash mobs you described) where I would use any other body over Savant's +2, really. The macc difference is huge. I think I'm not even going to bother making nq morrigan.

[Konda]

Regain moonshade improves your WS damage by ~4.5% while TP bonus only improves it by ~1% over str+4 earring. Yes its much better.

If you say so...

[noodles355]

I can't think of a situation (other han the macc capped trash mobs you described) where I would use any other body over Savant's +2, really. The macc difference is huge. I think I'm not even going to bother making nq morrigan.

So you are saying before salvage II gear came out you didn't have enough Macc in your Sch nuke set? Because the 11 Macc you lose on body you gain back on using morri+1 hands.

Sure, you can use morri+1 hands and AF3 body for even more macc, but again - that would suggest before salvage II came out that you didn't have enough macc in your nuke set.

[Taim Meich]

So you are saying before salvage II gear came out you didn't have enough Macc in your Sch nuke set? Because the 11 Macc you lose on body you gain back on using morri+1 hands.

Sure, you can use morri+1 hands and AF3 body for even more macc, but again - that would suggest before salvage II came out that you didn't have enough macc in your nuke set.

Well, you're rigt in one thing: I didn't have macc problems before. But then again, I don't do Legion. As for the rest of the content, even against Botulus Rex I think I have capped macc on nukes, at least with Ascetics. But that's eyeballing, so maybe I'm not caped there.

However, even with my typical nuking set, in which including /RDM MAB I have a modest 72 total MAB, increasing the total MAB by 2 would only yield about 1.2% more magic damage. That's not worth the effort, gil, inventory, and potential risk of extra resists in harder content. Because, and this is pure speculation on my part since I don't do Legion, if people need Apamajas II to land Stuns reliably, I assume nukes will have serious resist problems with Magian damage staves, and there a good macc set can be pretty useful.

It's the same principle as to why everyone switched from Saevus Pendant to Stoicheion Medal (well, aside from the 3% fast cast on nukes): a minimal loss in MAB is preferable if you get a decent increase in macc.

[noodles355]

That's not worth the effort, gil, inventory, and potential risk of extra resists in harder content.

Here you're saying:
1) Either: It has no use as a Sch Idle refresh+2 body. Or: It's use as a Sch refresh idle body is not worth the gil and inventory. That suggests you don't think +2 refresh is worth +1 inventory or gil, which we can take to mean you don't bother with a sch idle set, seeing as +2 refresh is probably the best stat you can get in a single slot.
2) You don't know how to have two different nuke sets - one for harder content and one for weaker content. Even if you had morrigan body+1 for idle, you would still only make one nuke set, instead of having differing sets for differing content.

Personally, I don't agree with either of those points. +2 Refresh idle is definitely worth the cost/effort. And if you have it already for that, there is zero reason you can't make two nuke sets for easy and difficult content.

Finally, you bring up legion. I'll let you in on a secret: The Macc+6 on Apajamas II is not the primary reason you make the staff. That would be the 14% recast time.

[Taim Meich]

Oh, the recast time! Certainly, I overlooked that.

Regarding the other 2 points:

1) I have Heka's Kalasiris + Nefer Khat. That's my 3 refresh from head + body, and I actually need the Heka's. Unless there's a new refresh +2 head gear for SCH that was added recently and I don't know, this is tied with morrigan+1/manasa chasuble and refresh hairpin as the best refresh option.

2) I do know, but so far I haven't considered it useful enough. Well, scratch that: at 75, I had a macc set, because then the damage and macc options were more diferentiated, and I was in a HNMLS doing some things that would require it. Now, the difference has blurred, so an hybrid set offers almost no compromise.

Like in the debate about what's more MP efficient, using Sublimation gear or Refresh gear, the differences are so minimal that they won't have any impact in the game, so I lean to the safest (and easiest, and cheaper, and inventory-efficient) of the two options.

[Rocl]

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Spurrina_Coif

Then again, you said yourself you don't do Legion so '~'/ but technically, yes, you can get 4 refresh from head/body on SCH

[Slycer]

Sure, you can use morri+1 hands and AF3 body for even more macc, but again - that would suggest before salvage II came out that you didn't have enough macc in your nuke set.

I disagree that the only benefit of AF3+2 SCH body is m.acc. In fact, I would say that the Enmity reduction benefit (addendum bonus) situationally supersedes the m.acc benefit (vs. Morrigan's Robe +1). Enmity-20 (that passes the normal enmity reduction cap) on tier 4 and tier 5 nukes is very significant, arguably moreso than the magic accuracy gain. That in conjunction with the magic accuracy makes it a difficult argument to use Morrigan's Robe +1 on SCH unless you're not only fighting trash mobs, but soloing as well.

However, Morrigan's Robe +1 should factor be a component in basically any "best" BLM nuking set. There are not many situations outside of Legion where you will notice any sort of nuking resists, and you aren't nuking in Legion. I'm not saying to toss the Nares Saio, obviously it could be useful in the future if/when more resisty stuff is introduced where nuking is still worthwhile, but Morri+1 wins out for now.

As you guys have pointed out, I can't really think of anything in the game aside from Botulus Rex without Ascetic's up which is something that is both worth nuking and resisty.

I am thinking that an optimized nuking setup for SCH is something like:
Staff/Skrati/---/Erlene
Nares/Stoich/Novio/Hecate
AF3+2/Morri+1/INT+7/Strendu
Taubran/Othila/Akasha/Morri+1

(Strendu vs. INT+7 in second ring slot depends on nuke tier, but they're closely on par).

For BLM, just replace AF3+2 body with Morri+1. If you're really feeling confident about your m.acc, you can also swap Morri+1 hands for Nares (+2 INT, -11 m.acc), Stoich for Saevus (+1 MAB, -5 m.acc), or even Maniacus for Othila (+1 MAB, +10% m.crit, -10 m.acc) for marginal damage improvements at the expense of significant m.acc. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how strongly BLM m.acc is capped. If it's like massively over the cap on everything in the game, then you might as well go all out damage and make all of these swaps.

[TacoTaru]

Is Rancor Collar + Atheling Mantle or Nefarious Collar + Rancorous Mantle better for MNK TP, or is dependent on other gear to make that call?

[noodles355]

I disagree that the only benefit of AF3+2 SCH body is m.acc. In fact, I would say that the Enmity reduction benefit (addendum bonus) situationally supersedes the m.acc benefit (vs. Morrigan's Robe +1). Enmity-20 (that passes the normal enmity reduction cap) on tier 4 and tier 5 nukes is very significant, arguably moreso than the magic accuracy gain. That in conjunction with the magic accuracy makes it a difficult argument to use Morrigan's Robe +1 on SCH unless you're not only fighting trash mobs, but soloing as well.

Whilst the enmity is significant, there isn't actually that much where it is an issue.
Things you use SCH for:
Events that are basically Embravaing a bunch of melees - They're swinging so fast and pumping WSs, they'll be at hate cap, you wont be pulling hate, or eve if you do the mob wont have time to move towards you as someone else will regain hate before it can.
Nyzul Isle - Only really nuke the physical resistant flan. You're gonna take hate off flan with or without AF3 body unless your melee swap to twilight scythe. Better just to pump out more damage per nuke and ride stoneskin/aquaviel/regen/embrava.
Legion - You're there to stun. Nuking helps a lot with turtle but you're unlikely to get resists on him at all.

Only time I can think of it being an issue would be in Salvage II or Meebles.

[mdkuser]

Is Rancor Collar + Atheling Mantle or Nefarious Collar + Rancorous Mantle better for MNK TP, or is dependent on other gear to make that call?

on double attack is double damage and double TP. A crit is almost never double damage (typically t is +50% damage). atheling+rancor collar is always better.

[Slycer]

Whilst the enmity is significant, there isn't actually that much where it is an issue.
Things you use SCH for:
Events that are basically Embravaing a bunch of melees - They're swinging so fast and pumping WSs, they'll be at hate cap, you wont be pulling hate, or eve if you do the mob wont have time to move towards you as someone else will regain hate before it can.
Nyzul Isle - Only really nuke the physical resistant flan. You're gonna take hate off flan with or without AF3 body unless your melee swap to twilight scythe. Better just to pump out more damage per nuke and ride stoneskin/aquaviel/regen/embrava.
Legion - You're there to stun. Nuking helps a lot with turtle but you're unlikely to get resists on him at all.

Only time I can think of it being an issue would be in Salvage II or Meebles.

Not really arguing the purpose of SCH here. Honestly, we could look at nuking in general and probably count the number of situations where it's relevant for damage purposes on one hand, lol. Really more thinking (hoping?) that this stuff will matter for the future and looking at it from that perspective.

[TacoTaru]

on double attack is double damage and double TP. A crit is almost never double damage (typically t is +50% damage). atheling+rancor collar is always better.

Good! That will save me a few mil at least.

[spider123]

Quit mid last year, reactivated today. Help me ungimp my poor mnk! Quick and/or optimal pieces are welcome.

Spoiler: show

TP


WS