College - A Waste of time?

[Greatguardian]

Never had a job in my life, never went to college.

Let me show you my shocked face.

[Woozie]

By the time I'm done, I'll have a masters in applied math, a masters in theoretical math, a masters in physics, and a PhD in one of those. Most jobs that a physics and mathematics major would end up in requires a lot of physics and/or mathematics, so I'm almost guaranteed to need the stuff I learned when I get into my career. Most physicists end up in jobs where they wouldn't consider themselves a "physicist", but even then these are still jobs that require a strong background in mathematics, lab work, programming/modeling/simulation, and science. Depending on the situation, you may be able to do without one of the things on the list. For example, I'm probably not going to need lab work because I hate it and therefore I'm specifically looking for physics and math careers without it. A physicist who works on wall street could do without both the science and the lab work but not without the mathematics and the computer stuff.

You can't always separate these different things into percentages though. For example, if I get a job doing applied mathematics in something physics related, I'd say I'm using almost everything I learned. If I get a job doing just mathematics or just physics, I'd still say I'm using almost everything I learned since every moment I spent learning physics I was also learning mathematics, and everything I do in physics depends on the math I've learned. Of course, no matter where I end up working, it's very probably that I could have learned the skills for the job without doing physics, applied math and theoretical math, but that doesn't mean one or two of them is "unused".

[Xno Kappa]

Meh. It's a necessary step most of the time to get the career you want. Can't remember the amount of times any one of my professors would tell me I'd forget what they're teaching and relearn the "field" way to do things on the job.

[SephYuyX]

Years spent in college: 7
Number of jobs held throughout: 4
Degrees earned: 3
Months taken to get a 6 figure job after graduation: 1
Amount of learned college education applied at job: 0

Is college a waste of time? No
Is the information you learn at college pretty worthless? Yes

Unless youre planning to become a doctor / PhD in something.. the stuff you learn is school is pretty meh. It makes for a good foundation, but on the job learning and experiance is the best place to gain such knowledge. The only issue is, is that in order to get your first good job, youre going to have to man up and get at minimum a BS, and youll also need to have work experience; after your first or second job the degree becomes worthless and the job experience becomes most important.

Pretty soon everyone will need a Masters to get that first job.

I've always said/heard that a degree is just a peice of paper thats says you can put up with shit tons of bullshit; employers love people who take it up the ass.


PS. A token of advice for anyone who wants to rise in a large corporate culture (or just survive): Make everyone else take the fall for you, take the blame for nothing, always have a scape goat, shed responcibility on others, and always have an excuse for everything.

[Pirian]

While not perfect, college is the most efficient way we have of separating low-ability workers from high-ability workers. Is it mostly a waste of time in terms of the information learned? Probably for most majors. Is it a waste of time in terms of what it signals to the employer? No way. College is not all about the information learned in college, and if you don't understand this then that is probably why you aren't in it.

[test123]

For example, if I get a job doing applied mathematics in something physics related, I'd say I'm using almost everything I learned. If I get a job doing just mathematics or just physics, I'd still say I'm using almost everything I learned since every moment I spent learning physics I was also learning mathematics, and everything I do in physics depends on the math I've learned.

Several subjets that depend on eachother that you need in order to do your job are useful. But what about everything else, which is my point.

For the economy as a whole, why should a good chunk of the population "waste" so much time studying something they will hardly ever use. It is like building roads noone will use.

[Greatguardian]

You can tell he's not from America when he doesn't know that we're currently suffering from a shortage of STEM educated professionals and are in dire need of repairs to our roads and general infrastructure.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

You get as much out of college as you want. If you're eager for an education and not just a piece of paper, you're bound to learn extremely valuable ideas that may be applicable to your desired profession. After slacking off for three years, I decided to take initiative and pester my professors. I've become good friends with one of them and he's a fantastic resource who saves me time/research. I think for the average student, college is probably a waste of time, but the potential knowledge one can gain is beyond valuable. That being said, I would definitely argue that first-hand experiences/mistakes are the ultimate learning experience; something that isn't always available in homework.

[Demosthenes11]

Several subjets that depend on eachother that you need in order to do your job are useful. But what about everything else, which is my point.

For the economy as a whole, why should a good chunk of the population "waste" so much time studying something they will hardly ever use. It is like building roads noone will use.

because there is more use in an education than training for a job. It is never a bad thing to have a very educated populace

[test123]

It is never a bad thing to have a very educated populace

Are you sure about that? What about the consequences. Generations are in debt, millions of labor hours goes unused. It is not only that you need to live on a limited income for 15 years paying off debts, it is the multiplier this forwards in the economy. Every dollar earned at an early stage could mean +10 dollars appearing somewhere benefiting someone else and yourself. It is in the early stages of life you need money to settle down. Why limit yourself at such an early stage in life when that is the time you need money the most.

To take your argument to the extreme, everyone should be a student until they are 40 years old, then retire at 60, hello Greece?

[ronin sparthos]

Are you sure about that? What about the consequences. Generations are in debt, millions of labor hours goes unused. It is not only that you need to live on a limited income for 15 years paying off debts, it is the multiplier this forwards in the economy. Every dollar earned at an early stage could mean +10 dollars appearing somewhere benefiting someone else and yourself. It is in the early stages of life you need money to settle down. Why limit yourself at such an early stage in life when that is the time you need money the most.

To take your argument to the extreme, everyone should be a student until they are 40 years old, then retire at 60, hello Greece?

Regarding the debt argument, the mentality that you need to attend top-tier educational facilities and shackle yourself to debt for the next 20 or so years needs to change, not the idea of going to college altogether. College is a great bridge between the immaturity of high school and the professional attitudes and knowledge sets you'll need to adopt to succeed in the career workforce. You're caught up on the specifics of what you learn in college rather than considering the maturity and exposure to new ideas that are inherently apart of the college experience - if you choose to grasp it.

You're less likely to get the opportunities a good college education provides entering the work force directly from HS and more likely to be taken advantage by those with degrees. Sure, the HS grad may be making more money than the guy grinding out a degree at first but in terms of what is being put back into the college knowledge base who is doing more? Joe Sixpack or the guy that has a degree, understands complex issues and is driving the economy by working and contributing ideas?

[Pirian]

Are you sure about that? What about the consequences. Generations are in debt, millions of labor hours goes unused. It is not only that you need to live on a limited income for 15 years paying off debts, it is the multiplier this forwards in the economy. Every dollar earned at an early stage could mean +10 dollars appearing somewhere benefiting someone else and yourself. It is in the early stages of life you need money to settle down. Why limit yourself at such an early stage in life when that is the time you need money the most.

To take your argument to the extreme, everyone should be a student until they are 40 years old, then retire at 60, hello Greece?

College acts as a signaling tool to employers of the quality of worker that you are. If you remove this then there is even more waste because employers are forced to pay under-qualified workers more and qualified (and overqualified) workers less. College works because a lower-ability worker is going to have to pay more, and work harder to graduate, and thus they are going to demand a much higher wage than a higher-ability worker that ends up paying less, and not working as hard. For a lower-ability worker, this isn't going to make sense, and they are going to self-select into opting out of college.

This isn't Greece's problem.

[test123]

The idea that you need a degree to succeed in life is kinda disproved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...t_billionaires

People with a drive to succeed are likely to attend college, so you can't just say that people who don't go to college are not likely to succeed. If college did not exist people would still succeed.

Why can't you prove your "quality" to an employer by working a few months and point to results rather then pointing to a diploma?

[Headspace]

Why can't you prove your "quality" to an employer by working a few months and point to results rather then pointing to a diploma?

Because it costs a ton of money to hire/train/process paperwork for new employees to take a risk on someone who "might" prove quality.

[Anoat]

I tend to think that, for most degrees outside of stuff like medicine/engineering and such, you aren't going to learn much in the classroom that you couldn't learn already outside the classroom. But college does give you the opportunity to do internships, network, and meet people with similar interests to your field who could ultimately help you. The old "its not what you know but who you know" adage.

And also, I met some of my best friends during my time in college, and really only talk to maybe 4-5 of my friends back from high school. The social aspect can't be ignored.

[Viq]

It was certainly worth it for me. Being a translator, the education I got in Korean at a university in Korea gets used all day everyday.

[hey]

Are you sure about that? What about the consequences. Generations are in debt, millions of labor hours goes unused. It is not only that you need to live on a limited income for 15 years paying off debts, it is the multiplier this forwards in the economy. Every dollar earned at an early stage could mean +10 dollars appearing somewhere benefiting someone else and yourself. It is in the early stages of life you need money to settle down. Why limit yourself at such an early stage in life when that is the time you need money the most.

To take your argument to the extreme, everyone should be a student until they are 40 years old, then retire at 60, hello Greece?

SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PICK UP THE TAB!

[Jefe]

If I were to show up @ CAT or Honda w/o an engineering degree, no doubt they'd laugh my ass out of the building throwing vegetables and shit. Their way of thinning the herd. That being said, I know and have heard computer science majors who were able to land jobs thanks to their programming skills. So it all depends on one's major and the company. The college district here will never hire someone w/o at least an AS. My friend is in charge of the computer labs and MIS w/ a two year degree.

[test123]

I know and have heard computer science majors who were able to land jobs thanks to their programming skills.

When a 14 yo boy cracks open encrypted DVDs, while a 28yo girl barely knows c++ after graduation, what measure is a diploma. Sure some companies only give interviews to graduates, but in many companies the floor guy can climb up pretty fast if the manager sees his/hers potential.

[ronin sparthos]

The idea that you need a degree to succeed in life is kinda disproved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...t_billionaires

You're familiar with averages right? You're more likely to succeed with a degree than without. Pointing out a handful of college dropout billionaires doesn't make for a convincing argument that college is a waste of time and many of those dropouts would admit that higher education is the less risky path to success. Further, many would mention the luck they had in combination with skill to succeed.

I also laughed at Pablo Escobar, Adnan Khashoggi and Amado Carrillo Fuentes being on the list just cause.

Why can't you prove your "quality" to an employer by working a few months and point to results rather then pointing to a diploma?

Because our population is rising and we need a measure by which to choose individuals for positions. Do you really want people learning everything on the job in certain careers? Besides, how would I choose who to pick to fill a slot if everyone comes in with a convincing story that they can handle the position?

Not to mention the losses for the employer if you fail to deliver.