Innocent man finally "freed".

**hey** · 2012-05-25 12:23

No one ever forces anyone to plead guilty. However it is very often the best choice, even sometimes for innocent people, which is why it's done so often. I'm not sure why this is a problem.

**archibaldcrane** · 2012-05-25 12:29

You're not sure why it's a problem that pleading guilty is very often the best choice for innocent people?

**hey** · 2012-05-25 12:30

No, i'm not sure why people being advised to the what is best for them is a problem.

**archibaldcrane** · 2012-05-25 12:32

The only reason pleading "no contest" may have been best for him is because he couldn't afford a competent defense.

**hey** · 2012-05-25 12:36

Probably in this case, yes. But he wasn't just talking about this case.

**Mertron** · 2012-05-25 12:38

eagles could use a linebacker

**Acevalefor** · 2012-05-25 13:22

Originally Posted by hey

No, i'm not sure why people being advised to the what is best for them is a problem.

Because what's best for the lawyer is not what's best for the client.

One of the reasons that attorneys push for plea bargains is because they can make a lot more money by stacking their client folder chock full of people willing to plea out than they could ever make taking something to trialfor one or two clients. Furthermore, the judges and DAs aggressively push for plea bargains, etc. because they know that the entire court system would get so backlogged that you would have to wait 3-5 YEARS for your case to be heard if you and everyone else chose to fight the charges against you/them.

So, again. "No Contest" is never in your best interest unless you are actually guilty or it's a minor traffic offense. It's in the system's best interest not to take it to trial and scare you into accepting a plea offer from the DA.

I have had my own experience with this which I have shared in the past. I stopped a lady from beating the hell out of a 12 year old kid and got charged with assault and menacing. They brought on both charges in the hopes that I would plead guilty to assault 4 or face up to 5 years in jail because they would escalate the charge to a felony if I took it to court. I knew I was not guilty of anything but throwing a few heated threats at this woman. So all they could get me for was menacing. I won the case because I chose not to bow to the pressure from the state and my attorney. If everyone did this, could you imagine the gridlock that would happen?

Now seriously tell me that your lawyer advised you to plead no contest because it was in your best interest.

**hey** · 2012-05-25 13:30

So, again. "No Contest" is never in your best interest unless you are actually guilty or it's a minor traffic offense.

Or if there is evidence that says you did, and a jury is most likely going to believe it.

Furthermore, the judges and DAs aggressively push for plea bargains, etc. because they know that the entire court system would get so backlogged that you would have to wait 3-5 YEARS for your case to be heard if you and everyone else chose to fight the charges against you/them.

Which is great because it gives them a big incentive to give favorable plea deals.

I have had my own experience with this which I have shared in the past. I stopped a lady from beating the hell out of a 12 year old kid and got charged with assault and menacing. They brought on both charges in the hopes that I would plead guilty to assault 4 or face up to 5 years in jail because they would escalate the charge to a felony if I took it to court. I knew I was not guilty of anything but throwing a few heated threats at this woman. So all they could get me for was menacing. I won the case because I chose not to bow to the pressure from the state and my attorney.

Great, i'm glad you didn't get stuck in jail for bullshit reasons. It happens all the time though. Innocent people get convicted.

If everyone did this, could you imagine the gridlock that would happen?

Yes, i can, but how is this relevant?

Now seriously tell me that your lawyer advised you to plead no contest because it was in your best interest.

I have never even been arrested.

**aurik** · 2012-05-25 13:35

The problem with the system is that it is often in a person's best interest to plead No Contest rather than fight charges that are false.

**Acevalefor** · 2012-05-25 13:40

That last part was hypothetical. What you are saying is that since innocent people get convicted by a jury sometimes, then you should just roll over and take the punishment because you MIGHT get convicted anyways?

The relevance of the gridlock is to try to get you to understand that private lawyers, judges, and DAs don't give a flying fuck what your best interest is. They want to keep the courts from getting gridlocked, make a paycheck, and move on to the next case for another paycheck. Altruism doesn't exist except in very small doses in American courts. This guy was advised to plead out rather than forcing the state to produce evidence to prove his guilt.

I just don't understand how you can believe that lawyers care about your best interest. Maybe it's just because you have never seen the business end of criminal charges. Wait until it happens close to home and watch the legal system work against you.

**Lucavi** · 2012-05-25 13:45

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

That last part was hypothetical. What you are saying is that since innocent people get convicted by a jury sometimes, then you should just roll over and take the punishment because you MIGHT get convicted anyways?

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's being spoonfed to some people, and consequently, exactly what the problem is.

Does a woman even have to prove a rape actually occurred in this day and age? Hell, even if you were acquitted, your reputation is shot to hell and back.

**hey** · 2012-05-25 13:46

Originally Posted by Acevalefor

That last part was hypothetical. What you are saying is that since innocent people get convicted by a jury sometimes, then you should just roll over and take the punishment because you MIGHT get convicted anyways?

...no? Like everything else, you should analyze the situation and determine your risk. If you're choice is between 90% conviction of life in prision vs 100% chance of 5 years, take the 5 years, regardless of whether you did it or not. If it's 20% chance of 1 years vs 6 month plea deal, take your chances. Shit's situational.

**archibaldcrane** · 2012-05-25 13:48

Originally Posted by Lucavi

Does a woman even have to prove a rape actually occurred in this day and age? Hell, even if you were acquitted, your reputation is shot to hell and back.

I think in "this day and age" there's a lot more backlash against a woman who accuses someone of rape (regardless as to whether it's true) than to an acquitted accused man.

**Lucavi** · 2012-05-25 13:49

Is there? According to this article about a woman who accused and was awarded $1.5 mil, there isn't.

**aurik** · 2012-05-25 13:52

You don't see that as a rather exceptional case?

Because it is.

**Churchill** · 2012-05-25 13:55

Like I said, it's happened to enough people I know (bogus charges/claims re: rape) that I have a go phone and a means to get out of the country rather than face a rape charge I'm not going to beat.

**Lucavi** · 2012-05-25 14:45

Originally Posted by aurik

You don't see that as a rather exceptional case?

Because it is.

I don't see a guy getting fleeced by a would-be rape accuser as an exceptional case. I also don't see said would-be rape accuser not being prosecuted as an exceptional case.

Perhaps, wherever you live, things run differently. Perhaps a justice system is actually just wherever you live.

**Kuya** · 2012-05-25 14:56

Anyone ever gonna post statistics or is it gonna be one of those back and forth kind of things today?

**archibaldcrane** · 2012-05-25 15:19

Statistics? C'mon Kuya, you know full well that most women who say they are raped are liars, even if the motivation for their supposed lying is, um, to get attention or something.

**Lucavi** · 2012-05-25 16:23

Originally Posted by Kuya

Anyone ever gonna post statistics or is it gonna be one of those back and forth kind of things today?

Still.

Fucking.

Looking.

Google it is. More at 11.

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