General's remarks abouts suicide "upsetting"

[Yuri-G]

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...ing/?hpt=hp_t2General's remarks about suicide "upsetting"

By Larry Shaughnessy
On this Memorial Day when military leaders around the world honor fallen troops, one Army general has retracted a blog post stating he is "fed up" with soldiers who commit suicide, calling it "an absolutely selfish act."
The comments were originally posted online in January by Maj. Gen. Dana Pittard, commanding general of one off the Army's largest posts, Fort Bliss, but have only recently caused a public stir.
Rep. Thomas Rooney, R-Florida, called the comments "upsetting," Friday. Rooney is co-chair of the House Military Mental Health and Suicide Prevention Caucus. He said Pittard's post "displays a complete lack of understanding about the struggles that our troops and veterans with mental illness are facing."

After meeting with a retired military member recently about the blog, Pittard decided this week to retract the blog and explain himself, according to his office.
His retraction reads in part: "In my commentary published January 19, 2012, I stated suicide was a selfish act. Thanks to many of you and your feedback, I have learned that this was a hurtful statement. I also realize that my statement was not in line with the Army's guidance regarding sensitivity to suicide. With my deepest sincerity and respect towards those whom I have offended, I retract that statement."
Pittard wrote the original post the day after attending a January 18 memorial service for a soldier who committed suicide on Christmas Day. As he was leaving the service, according to his office, Pittard was informed that another soldier at the base was suspected of taking his own life. A senior military source at Fort Bliss who would not speak for attribution, the January blog post was written when Pittard was "frustrated" about soldier suicides and that it was "out of character." It reads in part:
"Wednesday, we lost a Fort Bliss Soldier to an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound. I heard the tragic news as I walked out of a memorial service for another one of our Soldiers who decided to kill himself at home on Christmas Day so that his family would find him. Christmas will never be the same for his two young daughters he left behind," Pittard wrote at the time.
He continued, "I have now come to the conclusion that suicide is an absolutely selfish act. Soldiers who commit suicide leave their families, their buddies and their units to literally clean up their mess. There is nothing noble about suicide."
Later in the post Pittard wrote "I am personally fed up with Soldiers who are choosing to take their own lives so that others can clean up their mess. Be an adult, act like an adult, and deal with your real-life problems like the rest of us."
But the January blog post also appears to show an officer concerned about his soldiers and preventing suicide.
"I care about each and every one of our Soldiers, family members and civilians at Fort Bliss. I know there are a lot of people hurting out there. ... If you are hurting mentally or emotionally, then seek and get help; but don't resort to taking your own life."
Fort Bliss soldier Sgt. Daniel Taylor disagrees with the idea that suicide is selfish. "I don't think it's selfish, it's their last resort. Anything that's considered last resort is not a selfish act."
Taylor, who admits to having contemplated suicide himself while in Iraq, told CNN that the general's original remarks were likely a result of strong emotions.
"I think that in his frustration a lot of his true emotions may have come out about the situation," Taylor said.
Rep. Rooney said Friday that the entire military needs to focus on the troops. "We should be doing everything we can to encourage our troops who are contemplating suicide to come forward and seek treatment, but Maj. Gen. Pittard's comments can only serve to further isolate our troops who are struggling with illnesses like PTSD and depression and make them less likely to seek the care they need."
Pittard seems to be trying to return the focus to helping soldiers in need, writing in his retraction that, "We can all help by wrapping our arms around our fellow soldiers and showing them a future that is positive and supportive. This takes both leadership and compassion."

[archibaldcrane]

Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

eh

nailed it

as long as that statement isn't the end of a person's opinions about people with mental health issues, i have no problem with that being part of the description of what suicide is

[Yuri-G]

frustrating that this army general espouses one of the most commonly misheld beliefs about suicide. blaming people for killing themselves is counter-productive and missing the point. yes, it has exceedingly selfish consequences (which is the only reason I didn't do it when I was depressed - I didn't give two shits about myself, but I couldn't hurt my family that way). but when a person reaches that point, it generally does not feel like a choice anymore. the best description I've ever found for suicide is that it's not a choice, it's the result of pain that exceeds resources for coping with pain.

on the other hand, this guy seems to genuinely care about his troops, and his outburst seemed driven by concern and frustration rather than an attempt to brand suicidal people as weak and selfish. and his apology doesn't have that contrived "I'm a public servant and I've been ordered to do this" feel that you often get in cases like this - he seems to genuinely mean it.

[Yuri-G]

eh

nailed it

as long as that statement isn't the end of a person's opinions about people with mental health issues, i have no problem with that being part of the description of what suicide is

disagree. there is no profit or pleasure from suicide. nobody wants to kill themselves, at least not in my experience. and the stigma associated with suicidality only increases the likelihood that someone who is suffering will see themselves as weak and unable to handle the pain any longer, in my opinion.

[archibaldcrane]

Are you saying that someone on the verge of suicide isn't ...mentally weak?

[archibaldcrane]

That's why they need help.

[Yuri-G]

Are you saying that someone on the verge of suicide isn't ...mentally weak?

that's a very tricky question. it implies that a person who kills himself could have lived if only he was stronger - in my experience, that's not how it works. depression has very little to do with mental strength.

what I'm saying is that a person who kills themselves is experiencing more pain than they can cope with. that doesn't necessarily make them weak. it does, however, mean that they need help.

[Correction]

"Be an adult, act like an adult, and deal with your real-life problems like the rest of us."
...
"I care about each and every one of our Soldiers, family members and civilians at Fort Bliss. I know there are a lot of people hurting out there. ... If you are hurting mentally or emotionally, then seek and get help; but don't resort to taking your own life."

"Oh oops I got caught being fucking stupid about the growing, serious mental health issues of my troops, quick someone feed me some PR drivel that makes me look sensitive to the issue."

[Ashmada]

Seriously, anyone who views suicide as a selfish act has never suffered from mental health issues (or other kinds of suffering that can lead to suicide like extreme physical pain or pauperity), should consider themselves extremely lucky and shut the fuck up about the subject.

Are you saying that someone on the verge of suicide isn't ...mentally weak?

Maybe, but putting it in those words certainly won't help him/her. Telling a depressed individual s/he's "weak" will only reinforce the notion s/he has that it's something inherently wrong with him/her; aggravating his/her mental condition.

[archibaldcrane]

what I'm saying is that a person who kills themselves is experiencing more pain than they can cope with. that doesn't necessarily make them weak. it does, however, mean that they need help.

If my brain is pumping out all the wrong combinations of chemicals (read: causing depression) - it's weak.

Or broken, if you prefer that. Either way, your head isn't working correctly and needs fixing.

[Koul]

I agree with Yuri.

Suicide *is* selfish in a sense but demonizing it in that way won't solve any problems. I've never called it but I'm sure the suicide hotlines don't say the caller is selfish and they need to think about the people they'll let down or whatever. The last thing someone that's emotionally sensitive wants to hear is those things because more than likely they already feel that way. I'm sure most of the people who commit suicide feel like they're doing society a service by killing themselves and that's how they justify it.

[archibaldcrane]

Maybe, but putting it in those words certainly won't help him/her. Telling a depressed individual s/he's "weak" will only reinforce the notion s/he has that it's something inherently wrong with him/her; aggravating his/her mental condition.

Isn't it usually the case that depression is more "inherent" than caused by an external source? That's what makes it so difficult to treat.

[Koul]

It's inherent, I'm sure but it can definitely be aggravated from external sources which can contribute to even deeper depressive states.

[Ashmada]

=archibaldcraneIsn't it usually the case that depression is more "inherent" than caused by an external source? That's what makes it so difficult to treat.

Once again, probably, yes; but putting it that way doesn't help.


Surely, archi, you agree that statement like this one:

"Be an adult, act like an adult, and deal with your real-life problems like the rest of us."

are retarded?

[Correction]

If my brain is pumping out all the wrong combinations of chemicals (read: causing depression) - it's weak.

You could have the 'strongest' coping mechanisms in the world but the horrors of war have a way of overwhelming that. Framing mental issues as weak vs. strong is getting it all wrong out of the gates.

[archibaldcrane]

Surely, archi, you agree that statement like this one:

are retarded?

Of course, acting like depression is a thing only sub-adults (or equally seen - sub-men) suffer from is detached from reality.

[archibaldcrane]

"Oh oops I got caught being fucking stupid about the growing, serious mental health issues of my troops, quick someone feed me some PR drivel that makes me look sensitive to the issue."

That quote you are trying to use to make it seem like he's backpedaling hard

"I care about each and every one of our Soldiers, family members and civilians at Fort Bliss. I know there are a lot of people hurting out there. ... If you are hurting mentally or emotionally, then seek and get help; but don't resort to taking your own life."

was in the same blog post in which he said suicide was selfish. That's not part of his "PR drivel".

[Celeste]

The comments this general made are deplorable. I know we have many BG servicemen & women, and plenty of my friends have served too. One in particular was stationed in Afghanistan. Sat in an office all day after a patrol gone wrong, and the dude was severely fucked in the head. Insisted he was going to be trapped there forever.

And this fucker criticizes soldiers who lose themselves and take their lives? Fuck that, seriously. No matter what, fuck that shit. Suicide is hardly a choice at the end of it all. A series of soul crushing moments is what suicide is. It isn't about your friends and family, It's about ending the severe pain you're in. The burning pain which flares up and remains with you all day and night, that keeps you up, and perhaps you give into the despair and fall asleep smiling whilst imagining how you're going to do it and how you won't be anymore afterwards. You think about the welcoming arms of oblivion embracing you forever.

[Ashmada]

Of course, acting like depression is a thing only sub-adults (or equally seen - sub-men) suffer from is detached from reality.

There's also the point that they should "deal with it" - and that's the thing, people that have never suffered mental health issues tend to presume a bit of willpower will suffice to overcome said issues since, when they were feeling a bit blue, they "shrugged and picked themselves up" or some other clichéd phrase. It couldn't be any less true.
That's a very common misconception and it creates an environment that only worsens one's mental health.

[Yuri-G]

that's the point I wanted to get it. it's not a question of just dealing with it, any more than not dying from cancer is a question of just willing your body to stop producing cancer cells. calling a suicidal person weak is like saying a cancer victim is weak because they can't just fight the disease. true, the body of a cancer victim is weak, but framing it that way just doesn't sound right. same with suicidal people.