General's remarks abouts suicide "upsetting"

[archibaldcrane]

I agree, those events broke those people, in that respect i think the broken arm analogy is exceedingly appropriate. Noone fixes a broken arm without help, much like people shouldn't think they need to recover from broken brains from rape or war by themselves.

[Ashmada]

Problem is, in some cases, telling someone with mental health issues that help is around the corner if they just seek it is a lot like telling a paralytic that there's a miracle cure in that building around the corner without wheelchair access: no matter how much s/he wants to be healed, s/he just can't access the treatment by him/herself.

In other words, sometimes "not being able to seek help" is a symptom. In those cases, there's no easy solution and sometimes no solution at all.

[Acevalefor]

Celeste, you seem to have too much subjective experience with depression and suicidal thoughts. Archi is agreeing with you and you are still trying to tell him he is wrong...

[Nevex]

If someone lets you go home from service, you get a dishonorable discharge (or worse), the scorn of your superiors and fellow soldiers, quite possibly the scorn from the public, and potentially scorn from family and friends who will view you as weak.

I'm surprised this stereotype still exists. Don't people join the army just for the paycheck? When it comes to modern war, ancient valors such as love for your own country and honor do not exist anymore since every single war nowdays is all about money.
Unless you're a deluded brainwashed individual, what's dishonorable about leaving a job you're not satisfied with?

What is weak is offing yourself because of this. When people quit a job that was causing them problems they look for another one, so I don't see why it should be any different for a soldier. They knew their job wasn't going to be easy, so if they go mad and kill themselves they deserve no sympathy.

[Celeste]

Celeste, you seem to have too much subjective experience with depression and suicidal thoughts. Archi is agreeing with you and you are still trying to tell him he is wrong...

Not on his last post, anyways.

[Karbuncle]

Not on his last post, anyways.

I had something to say at about page 2, but you made a second post which pointed out to me you do seem to at least acknowledge not everyone who commits suicide is doing it for some poetic escape from life being hard... So yeah, dropped on that.

On the topic at hand. Its hard for someone who's mentally sound to imagine what must be going on in someones head before the moment they decide to end it. I do believe no matter how lost you are, suicide can be prevented if the person just tries to reach out, and seek help. It may be a long journey, but i feel a lot of people could make it with help. I also feel those who consider suicide are not in their right mind, I wouldn't say "weak", but they're definitely not themselves.

Now... I've suffered from (Minor)depression, and horrible anxiety issues... I still technically suffer from both, But I'm learning to deal with it as best i can. There was one point in time where any odd thing happening in my body would send me into a panic of "omg I'm dying" - Panic Attacks... It was horrible. I should be taking medicine for it, But i have no insurance and not many ways around that when you're unemployed. Luckily for me, Its mild enough that i can contain it in most cases. I'm not completely free from the anxiety though...

My depression is/was just very mild, I can forget about it completely and live my life happily, with friends, and enjoying games... but I do sometimes feel the nibbling of it. I can't say I know what its like to be so depressed i want to kill myself... i do know that during some of my worse Anxiety attacks, I just wanted to either die, or know I'm fine so I can stop panicking. Dying was an acceptable alternative than living a life where every small thing would send me into a panic attack. It was never at the point where i was ready for suicide, But it was at the point where if I was really dying from "mysterious bowel noise #14" or "Why are my ears ringing?" I was wishing it would just hurry the f*ck up and kill me already instead of making me suffer through it.

Suicide is a touchy subject. People who have been close to someone who commits suicide will always be either "I'm so sad for him, But understand his want to "Embrace the arms of oblivion"" - Or "He was weak, He should have said something, reached out, I would have helped him..." - Its really just those two reactions. Understanding, or hate for him not reaching out and instead just abandoning you, sometimes both. I've not been close to anyone who commited suicide, But I can safely say if one of my brothers did it, After i got done grieving horribly, I'd be pissed they never talked to me about it, or reached out... Cause i'd do anything to help them.

Anyway, thats my personal opinion on the matter. Bouncing around...

[Celeste]

I'm just being long-winded. Suicide can be understandable in some situations, and totally confusing in others. People also have a tendency to bullshit after the fact. After awhile, who wants to humor the piece of shit raining on the parade of their life all the time?

People are selfish. I am at times. At other times, we can be awesome and care deeply for one another. Because of my experiences with it, I am always willing to put down what I'm doing to talk to someone and aid them when I can.

At the same time, I've tried talking to friends and family when I am particularly down. I used to be more vocal about it, just a short time ago, but I've since acknowledged that sometimes those loved so dear to us may be caught up in their own bullshit that they're blind to the person reaching out to them. Sometimes, they can be oh so cruel.

I suggest talking to the person you're closest to and hope they are receptive to it.

[Lucavi]

I'm surprised this stereotype still exists. Don't people join the army just for the paycheck? When it comes to modern war, ancient valors such as love for your own country and honor do not exist anymore since every single war nowdays is all about money.
Unless you're a deluded brainwashed individual, what's dishonorable about leaving a job you're not satisfied with?

What is weak is offing yourself because of this. When people quit a job that was causing them problems they look for another one, so I don't see why it should be any different for a soldier. They knew their job wasn't going to be easy, so if they go mad and kill themselves they deserve no sympathy.

Pretty sure you're misreading what I wrote. If you quit the military before your time, you are scorned publically and within the military. Money or anything else doesn't matter. You signed up for something, signed the contract, didn't like whatever about it once you got in, and then tried to get out. That is enough for you to receive a massive backlash.

It is what it is.

[Ragnus]

Pretty sure a dishonorable discharge fucks you for life in this country.

[Xno Kappa]

Friend of mine is stuck working under the table jobs because of it.

[Raldo]

Veering off-topic, so feel free to ignore but... how does that affect civilian jobs? I can't say I know anyone's military status, nor would I know (or care) how to find out such information. Is that not the sort of discriminatory hiring decisions that employers are generally barred from making?

[Eurell]

Veering off-topic, so feel free to ignore but... how does that affect civilian jobs? I can't say I know anyone's military status, nor would I know (or care) how to find out such information. Is that not the sort of discriminatory hiring decisions that employers are generally barred from making?

Haven't applied to a job in awhile, but don't they ask about military service on pretty much every job application?

[Jeryhn]

Haven't applied to a job in awhile, but don't they ask about military service on pretty much every job application?

Not out here in CA. Except for McDonalds, I guess? Maybe this is a more common thing in deep red states than anywhere else.

Considering you really, really need to fuck up to earn yourself a dishonorable discharge anyway (literally committing a serious crime against the UCMJ requiring a court martial), I don't see it as being any different than when an employer wants to know if you've been convicted of a serious felony when considering you for employment. The problem is that there are a few different kinds of discharge from military service that are neither honorable nor dishonorable, but many employers consider anything other than honorable to be dishonorable.

[Ashmada]

Pretty sure a dishonorable discharge fucks you for life in this country.

That'd make a great name for a male porn star: Dishonorable Discharge: he fucks you for life.