FFXIV 2.0 Screenshots from E3

[Denmork]

If you use chameleon/Quelling strike and freeze right you can still pretty much go balls to the wall save for fights that have a hate reset.

[samalis]

Presence of Mind, bro.

Also I would definitely yell at you if I was on WHM. If I was on BLM I'd deffo hi-5 you though. If I was on DRG I'd question what I was doing on DRG and change jobs.

Spoiler: show

The point of my post was that eventually you'd probably want to get ARC to 42 (and at that point fuck it I'm probably gonna finish it to 50) but it's not something where you will be forever shunned for not having it immediately when you hit 50 BLM. In a really shitty comparison it's like if you were a BLM w/o RDM sub. BLM/WHM works, you could use it, but BLM/RDM was obviously much better.

DRG that bad in this game? Guess I'll roll Bard.

[Rocl]

DRG that bad in this game? Guess I'll roll Bard.

I love and hate Dragoon because I don't have the requisite gear to make my DRG good =(

[Jamison]

Despite this thread going way off topic, maybe we should make a social shell for forum members?

[Denmork]

It's not that DRG is bad, but it doesn't fit the niche spots as well as other jobs can. I happen to find it one of the most fun jobs along with MNK, but when parties cap at 8 and everything is based on a speed run having an open mind about what jobs you bring becomes a bit hard.

[Therin]

Went 1/150 on Macha coat back in the day.

Am confused. Macha's Coat didn't exist back in the day.

Anyway, the jumping "issue" (not that it is one, really) would be really easy to fix if your character just took a split second to get his footing back on landing. This way it would be useful for traversing areas where jumping is necessary but wouldn't be something you'd do unnecessarily while getting from point A to point B.

Jumping to move around town faster is unrealistic and I can get behind the complaint with that, but if someone wants to jump constantly like an idiot I don't see an issue. People can do that in real life too, but no one does.

[shepardG]

... People can do that in real life too, but no one does.

If only they did..... If only they did....

[Therin]

If only they did..... If only they did....

Well, these people do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veHQMaxiOmg#t=0m54s

[shepardG]

tou'che

[Rocl]

Well, these people do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veHQMaxiOmg#t=0m54s

It is fucking mandatory to do that if you're white & that song starts playing where have y'all been?

[Burningthought]

Am confused. Macha's Coat didn't exist back in the day.

Anyway, the jumping "issue" (not that it is one, really) would be really easy to fix if your character just took a split second to get his footing back on landing. This way it would be useful for traversing areas where jumping is necessary but wouldn't be something you'd do unnecessarily while getting from point A to point B.

Jumping to move around town faster is unrealistic and I can get behind the complaint with that, but if someone wants to jump constantly like an idiot I don't see an issue. People can do that in real life too, but no one does.

In one of the E3 interviews yoshi confirmed that you would be able to jump on to a ledge. We may see more of that then the weird clunky vertical climb we have now. I'd rather have Jumping have some utility other than being just a roleplay feature.

[TacoTaru]

After reading the Reinheart translation I'm excited to hear that it will actually serve a purpose and not just be a vanity mechanic.

[Magi]

It's not that DRG is bad, but it doesn't fit the niche spots as well as other jobs can. I happen to find it one of the most fun jobs along with MNK, but when parties cap at 8 and everything is based on a speed run having an open mind about what jobs you bring becomes a bit hard.

DRG is supposed to be the best out of all melee for speed runs based on the fact it has the worst defense and is built purely on offense and offense alone. Why wouldn't you want a job that completely ignores their own defense and throws it all into offense if you're speed running? Well in the case of DRG you don't because it simply doesn't do enough damage. DRG's role is supposed to be amazing damage, which is useful everywhere (that IS supposed to be their niche), but the game isn't balanced and their damage is too low.

They did it with BLM, it has the worst defense (technically, let's ignore shitty encounter design that gives ranged classes higher safety than melee) except it actually has the amazing damage (and crowd control skills) to back it up. Result; everyone wants it. It's useful everywhere.

DRG is built exactly like BLM but with less crowd control and far less damage. There's nothing wrong with DRG's conceptual design (it IS a glass cannon in design), the problem is it's all glass and zero cannon.

With so few jobs in this game there's no need to have certain jobs on niche status. You got worse defense? You do better damage. Got a ton of defense? Sorry, you're doing less. There's advantages and disadvantages for everyone assuming encounter design takes this into account.

DRG will never be good until it does far more damage to offset it's crap defense. How long it will take SE to realise this is completely unknown. People should want a DRG for it's superior damage but fear how easily they can die and how it can mess your run up. Sounds like how BLM should work too in a perfect world. No one wants DRG because the higher damage isn't visible over the other classes and they also take far more extra damage, it's that simple.

You could buff up DRG's damage to be identical to BLM so they're both the best and it still wouldn't be balanced when BLMs are far safer attacking at a range and have sleepga/bind for crowd control, would be a good starting point though.

[Hiroishime]

People already uses DRG for everything... most notably Garuda and Misser.

[Magi]

The job wasn't designed to be the AoE bitch. That doesn't explain the horrible defense it has. Having such lower defense is done for a reason, on BLM it's done to balance out them doing the best damage. On DRG it's done for no reason that I can see currently, because it doesn't exist. So outside of a few exceptions no one wants the class. No one wants it for Ifrit, Moogle, Darkhold, Hamlet, Coincounter, Chimera.

How many fights are BLM, BRD or WAR useful in? With only 7 jobs there's no reason to put some of them into "niche roles", that's pathetic balancing.
You surely aren't trying to tell me the game is balanced and SE can't improve it further, are you? Because saying DRG is useful in 2-3 fights (and you definitely don't want more than one in that case!) when some other jobs are useful in practically all fights just reinforces my point that the job isn't balanced and requires work.
Then again you said "everything" when that really means 2-3 fights total and every other fight they're disposable for something clearly superior, so obviously I'm missing something here.

[Hiroishime]

Most notably is what i said, people does use DRG(or any melee DPS really) for ifrit/moogle/chimera (since voice of dragon buff), regarding Coincounter it's not that people doesn't let melees come, its just people lazy to switch between BLM for running then Melee jobs then BLM again, so people just swap it for Misser. Do you really want to swap class 3x inside for a content that you spams alot? i think not.

Can't say anything about hamlet though, since it's very specific setup required, even BLM is ignored there ;P

here are few screenshots on how after post patch DRG/melee DPS is used in alot of contents ;P also PUGs since ppl always complain nobody shout for stuff lol

Spoiler: show

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...5c92001069.jpg

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...5ca1000b25.jpg

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...5c9c000ed8.jpg

Basically i dont think DRG is as underrated as before, they are basically somewhat on par as MNK now in term of DPS and has alot other useability like AoE WS that are very helpful in some places. I dont know what you meant by horrible defense because MNK also does have horrible defense when it comes to fighting high level mobs.

[Tomino]

DRG is also suffering from the terrible MMO illness of being the class most picked by idiots. Which, in time, drops its "average" performances to all time lows and makes it unwanted in everything PUG.

[Magi]

regarding Coincounter it's not that people doesn't let melees come, its just people lazy to switch between BLM for running then Melee jobs then BLM again, so people just swap it for Misser.

We're getting into weird territory. You're speaking on behalf of what you and your linkshell does out of preference, none of that comes into account when discussing balance. I've done Coincounter where we had a few melee change into BRD/BLM/WHM/WAR for it alone, the opposite scenario. Ranged jobs have clear advantages in terms of damage output and risk aversion in that fight. You can use whatever jobs you like to clear content, but when talking about balance the question of if it's possible doesn't come into question. It's about whether there's an actual reason to bring that other job into the fight in place of another.

What advantages does DRG have over BLM in the Coincounter fight? There is no tangible reason to want a DRG over a BLM in that fight and many others. DRG is more likely to take more damage and get killed than a BLM in most fights and it does less damage to boot, there's no reason a BLM should outclass it in both aspects.

If for example DRG did more damage than a BLM, the BLM would still have an advantage in being a safer job to bring. Both jobs would have advantages in the fight, which one you want depends on the situation.

MNK could do higher than BLM damage too but not as much as DRG. Because if it was balanced right (this being my opinion) a 100 tonne swing would KO a DRG in one swipe while a MNK would survive with low HP. Currently it doesn't work like that, but future encounters should (imo) work like that and be that finely tuned.
So when you're making a party and you're a scrub the decision process isn't:
"Get a BLM, why would you get anything else?"
and more like:
"BLM is the safest, but MNK and DRG do more damage. DRG is more likely to get killed and can't get hate on adds anyway, so do we want a MNK?"
And then they (the party) tweak the setup based on their own performance and not based on a flowchart of "This job is the best, stack those jobs wherever possible".
Maybe too idealistic? But there's no shame in trying. All jobs should have advantages and disadvantages that apply to 90% of all fights as a base rule, the key differentiator being their defense:damage output ratio. Extra utility skills in the form of tanking, crowd control etc. comes after that.

they are basically somewhat on par as MNK now in term of DPS and has alot other useability like AoE WS that are very helpful in some places. I dont know what you meant by horrible defense because MNK also does have horrible defense when it comes to fighting high level mobs.

DRG with Power Surge up is approaching BLM levels of defense. There's a statement being made there no matter how you look at it. Before that it took 22.5% extra damage from everything. They want to make it weak defensively, which they've done, but they need to make it strong offensively too and they haven't done it yet. The comparison isn't even supposed to be DRG vs MNK, it's supposed to be DRG vs BLM as far as I'm concerned. It's supposed to have similar damage output to BLM otherwise the design of the job makes no sense, it has way too many negatives.

MNK has zero ways to lower it's defense to the point DRG can and has ways to boost defense with evasion and fists of earth. DRG has zero ways to improve evasion, parry or defense either through traits or abilities (sans featherfoot). Again, a clear picture is being drawn here.
MNK can also grab hate on stuff and put that better defense to use. Do current enemy encounters put enough emphasis on MNK's strong points i.e. its better defense? Not really, just like they don't take advantage of BLM's lower defense which makes that job unbalanced right now also. Can they in the future without changing the fundamental playstyle of the job? Yes, which is why I'm sticking to intended design mainly when talking about this stuff because encounter design is a mess also and will improve.
There's never going to be a situation where a DRG having low defense will be seen as a positive over a MNK or WAR. DRG having no ways to create hate aside from damage will never be seen as a positive over MNK or WAR either.

On par DPS where one is better at AoE and another single target is unacceptable considering the negatives DRG has.

I'll stop going on about this anyway, it's not the thread for it. I stand by the opinion that just giving DRG better damage would fix or at least improve it and give it a use across the board without having there being some need of a niche role it has to fulfill like Leg Sweep bitch to be desired. The only thing it needs to do is more damage, being that's the only thing it can do. There's only 7 jobs, there's no need for niche roles with so few.

You may see the jobs as balanced Hiroishime, but it's impossible for me to see it when it has more negatives compared to MNK for no good reason and a good portion of that apparent balance is due to badly designed encounters that don't take into account player defense enough. It's a melee BLM, a glass cannon, that doesn't have enough power to be compared with it so it's being compared with the next closest thing, MNK.

[Alkar]

You do realize that defense is completely worthless right? It doesn't matter if DRG has lower defense than any other DD because against things like Ifrit or Garuda it doesn't change a thing, you're still going to take the same damage no matter what. If was much worse before, now DRG is pretty good.
Also DRGs can easily spam WS left and right as well as comboes unlike other DDs and no one even comes close to their AoE goodness.
And let's not forget about Life Surge.

[Hiroishime]

Yeah i was kinda confused why do you need defense in endgame contents, lol.