Relic Weapon Revival (06/06/2012)

[Therin]

best part is on my server many people who doesnt even have a relic in 11(pre 99) are saying 14 relic is harder to obtain when they are at unfinished relics in like 1 week /jackiechan

People told me that too and I didn't believe it, I knew it was just something people who never got an XI relic pre-update said. This relic is a joke compared to XI's relics. Sure, it's not easy, and it takes a lot of cooperation of good players, but it's only been a week and a half or so and people have already completed them (yes, I realize some of the work was done before the actual relics themselves were released). It took over a year for Deathknight to finish his Apocalypse when XI relics first came out.

[gilgam]

I had 7relics(Dynamis was 3days) when I quit XI.
but I'm stuck @AV/CC.. cause I don't have good friend/LS member...
Pick up group can't do 17min TA-.-
XIV RELIC HARDER THAN XI.
I HATE THIS GAME!

[Grey Jorildyn]

I dunno who this new guy is, but he's cool.

[gilgam]

I was #1 player on XI.
but I can't get Relic in XIV....
IT'S VERY HARD.

[Therin]

I had 7relics(Dynamis was 3days) when I quit XI.
but I'm stuck @AV/CC.. cause I don't have good friend/LS member...
Pick up group can't do 17min TA-.-
XIV RELIC HARDER THAN XI.
I HATE THIS GAME!

It's harder because it requires a good group? Right...

Dynamis relics took about a year for a good endgame player with lots of friends and money making options at his disposal. For a more casual player, it would be 2-3 years. The only way to get a Dynamis relic easily was if you had gotten lucky with the market during inflation, if you bought gil or if you abused a linkshell.

[Churchill]

The only problems I see with 14 relics are what people have already said, double meld and Hamlet. The skill/competency tie in is perfectly fine and fits with any other MMO's current tier of legendary weapons.

In XI, all you had to do was go into Dynamis 3 times to get your relic and it could all be bought. While at some level, I think you could buy speed run clears and even an Ifrit Extreme win, the likelyhood of that actually happening is a lot lower. More to the point, the requirements are less gil based and more quest based whereas FFXI relic was pretty much all gil based.

[miokomioko]

I was #1 player on XI.
but I can't get Relic in XIV....
IT'S VERY HARD.

lol

[Jamison]

The only problems I see with 14 relics are what people have already said, double meld and Hamlet.

The interesting part of this is Hamlet is a one-time thing, and getting multiple relics after the first almost seems trivial in comparison. The double meld is a real PITA, though (although one that can be bypassed via gil, too).

[Fievel]

I was #1 player on XI.
but I can't get Relic in XIV....
IT'S VERY HARD.

Oh okay

[Zumi]

I got a relic in 11 pre nerf and well I definitely think the 14 relics are much harder to get. In 11 relics were mostly how good were you at farming gil and this could be worked on at any time you wish through many different methods.

Doing dynamis offered other rewards the AF so you could get a bunch of people to go with you who really had no interest in doing a relic more currency for you or the couple other people in the run that were interested in doing them. While in 14 its hard to find anyone who really wants to do hamlets, av/cc. Not to mention doing hamlets requires about 5 people to level crafting and gathering jobs, which makes it even harder to do and to get done in any timely manner you have to have a bunch of people dump mats into 1 person to get a top rank.

Because of the way 14 relics are designed I can't really make much progress on them at all, but with 11 I had no problem finishing my Excalibur.

[Churchill]

Doing Dyna was pretty much the equivalent of running a 1700's plantation.

[Fievel]

I got a relic in 11 pre nerf and well I definitely think the 14 relics are much harder to get. In 11 relics were mostly how good were you at farming gil and this could be worked on at any time you wish through many different methods.

Doing dynamis offered other rewards the AF so you could get a bunch of people to go with you who really had no interest in doing a relic more currency for you or the couple other people in the run that were interested in doing them. While in 14 its hard to find anyone who really wants to do hamlets, av/cc. Not to mention doing hamlets requires about 5 people to level crafting and gathering jobs, which makes it even harder to do and to get done in any timely manner you have to have a bunch of people dump mats into 1 person to get a top rank.

Because of the way 14 relics are designed I can't really make much progress on them at all, but with 11 I had no problem finishing my Excalibur.

CC/AV offer gear like darklight, hamlet offers Militia gear, caravan offer GC seals..I'm not understanding why those are any different than AF2 in XI.

[Rocl]

I think if only because you'll stop doing those. You have what, 3 CC runs and 3 AV runs if you aren't dumb? Hamlet, sure. Do we even know if you have to do Caravan more than once?

It'd be more like "okay we run every city twice, and that's it" if you equate it to XI. To progress, you eventually lose those big, open loot pools for people not doing relic. Meanwhile, in XI, fuck that shit we're doing Dynamis-Windurst for a year farming currency for some jagoff's weapon.

XI relics benefited more people by way of AF2 than XIV relics benefit people by way of Militia Gear. I don't think counting Darklight or anything past Hamlet is even worth it unless you're somehow doing hundreds of dungeon runs specifically for Relic.

[Fievel]

I think if only because you'll stop doing those. You have what, 3 CC runs and 3 AV runs if you aren't dumb? Hamlet, sure. Do we even know if you have to do Caravan more than once?

It'd be more like "okay we run every city twice, and that's it" if you equate it to XI. To progress, you eventually lose those big, open loot pools for people not doing relic. Meanwhile, in XI, fuck that shit we're doing Dynamis-Windurst for a year farming currency for some jagoff's weapon.

XI relics benefited more people by way of AF2 than XIV relics benefit people by way of Militia Gear. I don't think counting Darklight or anything past Hamlet is even worth it unless you're somehow doing hundreds of dungeon runs specifically for Relic.

Fair point, most groups will probably have to do AV/CC more than 3 times each though to be fair, multiple relics + getting used to the 17min pace. But I still see where you're coming from.

[Rocl]

Er, yeah, I meant in a best-case scenario. Best-case scenario Dynamis, you'll still need to do quite a few. (What was the max currency count in old-school Dynamis? I think like 400-500 per run was a fantastic good run?) Still at least over 30 Dynamis at that point, plus Dynamis' lockout timer (it was 72 hours? I can't remember lol), and the fact that a failed Dynamis run gives you some progress towards relic and gear for people, a failed AV/CC run will probably not do shit for your relic and gear people.

To be fair, I don't even know what we're talking about. I don't think these weapons were designed to be comparable to FFXI's Relics.

[Fievel]

Er, yeah, I meant in a best-case scenario. Best-case scenario Dynamis, you'll still need to do quite a few. (What was the max currency count in old-school Dynamis? I think like 400-500 per run was a fantastic good run?) Still at least over 30 Dynamis at that point, plus Dynamis' lockout timer (it was 72 hours? I can't remember lol), and the fact that a failed Dynamis run gives you some progress towards relic and gear for people, a failed AV/CC run will probably not do shit for your relic and gear people.

To be fair, I don't even know what we're talking about. I don't think these weapons were designed to be comparable to FFXI's Relics.

Yeah, you're right.

Also yeah there's no way these weapons were meant to be "XI relics"

[Therin]

Doing Dyna was pretty much the equivalent of running a 1700's plantation.

Basically this, for most Dynamis LS.

Getting my relic took thousands of hours. Sure, it's all "easy," but it's mind-numbing tedium for the better part of a year. I did four Dynamis runs a week (two characters) and bought currency from the two different shells that I did the runs with.

The linkshells that I was in getting my relic (and Zumi would know, he was in one of them) basically divided the currency up and sold it amongst four or five upgraders according to their attendance and so on. Even getting these LS discounts, I still had to buy over 80% of my currency on the market, because you'd only get about 50-70 coins per run since there were multiple upgraders. I put well over 120M into my relic which all came from farming Haguns (did two of these ENMs every 3 day period as well, got over 30 Haguns) and doing other miscellaneous things for gil... The amount of time this took was insane and the reason why I never bothered to do another one, even after they got much easier.

[Grey Jorildyn]

It's definitely not on par with XI relics at all. Since we all agree on that, we can move on

Anyone thinking otherwise never did a XI relic, clearly.

[Tomino]

XI relics benefited more people by way of AF2 than XIV relics benefit people by way of Militia Gear.

I see a potential issue in the way they are handling end-game content at the moment.

The higher difficulty (speed runs, Extreme Ifrit, etc) make so that players groups are becoming even more "close".
Of course, I'd not expect Relics to be available on pickup groups, but FFXI had this way of using currency as a way to gather lv75 players. You'd need lots of them to clear all Dynamises, so you'd form a LS and make events and things would go from there.

In FF14, the current top end-game content (Relics) is a matter of having a great 8 persons static. You simply have no reason to interact with anyone else besides your closest LS friends, and you cant let a "newbie" fill a spot because that simply wont work, because of required gear and experience.

[Wycor]

In 11 relics were mostly how good were you at stealing a LS bank through many different methods.
While in 14 everyone have gil so there is no need of a bank.

^ The truth.

14 is not really LS-group friendly. We went from "You must have a party/LS for everything."[11] to "You don't need a LS to do things still you will need a good one."[14]

You can: do hamlet with pick up, throw money for double meld, pick up for boss SH, pick up the rest untill CC/AV and Ifrit extreme & Garuda where you need a LS (group of 6 well know players).
If you are going to need a "good LS/Group" for last steps, it shouldn't be better if all the steps of relic should be done with a "LS/Group"? People is going across first steps but when CC/AV arrives they will hit a wall at least untill raise level cap.