This topic is about rape

[Charismatic]

Lesbian

[Antithesis]

What is with the trend for all the up and coming pseudo-news blog websites to use Cracked's format?

[Blarg]

the 'witty' text with graphics spread throughout the text?

[Antithesis]

Yes.

[Ryko]

I'm specifically told to split up multiple paragraphs with pictures. None of the other writers add captions, and whether or not I do depends on the article. I didn't use captions for my E3 writeup, for example. Though I only posted the two that did have captions so...

You've been rather catty in my general direction as of late, Ricky. Did I wrong you recently?

[Antithesis]

I wasn't aware I was being catty. No problem here

[Ryko]

Fair enough

[Conrad]

i don't need you honey
i beat my dick like it owes me money
fuck it

now if you'll excuse me..
i'm 'bout to have me a nice feces sandwich

this deserves recognition

[Conrad]

Good job, keith sweat

[Ryko]

Hi, Kohan. How goes? I wanted to ask what you thought of the whole Tomb Raider fiasco.

[isladar]

I'm gonna seriouspost:

I think your premise is strong: video games are a viable medium to present strong and serious content. The association with the kiddy table is outmoded and demographically inaccurate at this point. I do think there are some other considerations with the subject, however.

The term "mature content" being used as short-hand for sexual themes, violence, and strong language is unfortunate. This is not limited to video games, obviously, but it's well-represented within that medium. The English Patient is a mature story. Saints Row 3 is not. There is a decided difference between "inappropriate for children" and "mature". I'm not trying to make too much of a quibble over semantics, but I think the popular usage conflates the two.

The question I would ask regarding the use of sexual assault or threat of sexual assault against a female character is: what purpose does it serve? The developer's answer of "it's going to make the audience want to protect Lara" (I'm assuming this was his response based on your article, as you don't directly quote him) is obviously hilariously bad for the reasons you give, but I would argue it's also bad because it assumes a male audience. It frames sexual assault as by-males-and-for-males. The strong female protagonists you give as examples (Wonder Woman, Lisbeth) beg the question: is their strength reliant upon their reaction to sexual assault? If yes, then they're being portrayed as strong only within the male context of sexual assault. If no, why the fuck is sexual assault used in their story. What purpose does it serve?

The use of threatened sexual assault against Lara Croft as a means to build tension is poor writing, if only for the issue of where do they go from there? In the next installment, do they have Lara raped? What about the next? How can they keep ratcheting up tension? Often, I see the explanation given for including such content as "the bad guys do it; it shows they're bad". It's the lowest curb, and indicates that the writers have no capacity to portray deep and complicated characters, whether heroes or villains.

It's a tricky circumstance; sexual assault happens, and I'm sure you've heard the 1-in-4 women statistic. I am by no means saying that sexual assault should never be addressed. Saying nothing in the media will not make the act go away, nor would it serve to erase women's experience with it. However, using sexual assault to make up for an inability to portray personal antagonism is not an appropriate way to address the subject. Again, I would agree that video games are a viable medium to approach "mature" subjects, if we are to take mature to mean complex, adult, and developed. I'm not sure how sexual assault could be presented in that context, but yes, I think it can, and in a way should be done.

[Ryko]

It really is a matter of "just because it can be done, should it be done?" For what it's worth, judging from the trailer and gameplay through the scene, it really isn't one of those tasteless scenes where dicks are out on the table just because they can be. The threat of sexual assault is heavily implied by the circumstance, but not stated or gesticulated in any blatant manner. Is it weird to say that you just get a rapey vibe from it? Really, any and all outright mention of the actual concept of sexual assault in the game is really touted by the director and producers.

For Wonder Woman, being bound and humiliated (physically, emotionally, and to some degree sexually) is actually intrinsic to her origin and why the Amazons are so distrusting of "the world of man" in general. Her bullet bouncing bracelets are actually the shackles that hercules made her people wear, as a kind of reminder of where she came from and what she's fighting against. In this case, no one had to tastelessly explain that either, so I think it's a large matter of presentation.

That said, I may totally eat my words when the game is released. Or rather, I'd eat my words with specific regard to Tomb Raider; the principle stands on its own merit.

[isladar]

For Wonder Woman, being bound and humiliated (physically, emotionally, and to some degree sexually) is actually intrinsic to her origin and why the Amazons are so distrusting of "the world of man" in general. Her bullet bouncing bracelets are actually the shackles that hercules made her people wear, as a kind of reminder of where she came from and what she's fighting against. In this case, no one had to tastelessly explain that either, so I think it's a large matter of presentation.

It's not intrinsic to Wonder Woman's origin; her origin is made up. If the explanation of her distrust and why she's fighting and whatnot are staged within the context of reaction to sexual assault (actual or implied), then she is a character whose strength is reliant on male characterization of sexual assault.

Why does there need to be any depiction, implication, or history of WW being bound and humiliated in any context in order for her to be a strong character?

I would guess that it is because her writers are incapable of or unwilling to write and portray female characters who are strong outside of a male context. She's strong because she's fighting against male oppression / heavily implied male-instigated sexual overtones / male anything &c. has a metric shit-ton of male context, I think. I would like to see more strong female characters with no qualifiers.

Marcus Phoenix Beef McLargehuge didn't get swoll and badass because Jessica Rabbit done him wrong.

[Linliel]

This is pretty much what I was saying on facebook. Isladar, good luck. He doesn't really understand this stuff, nor does Sera, when she inevitably jumps in on the bandwagon. There's a bunch of levels you can analyse this on, and these deeper levels, to do with identity and empowerment, seem to be particularly hard concepts to grasp.

[Ryko]

Don't qualifiers kind of always go into the origin story though? Sticking with the topic of comics, couldn't one make the same argument that they'd like to see a character that was strong and reliable for any reason other than they're orphans? And for those characters that actually do lack that sort of scenario in their backstory, how well have they actually held up over time? You had to really really really be into comics to like Captain America, as he lacks a reason to be so ridiculously good other than "well, he just is". If they had tried to put that in a movie without first creating a fatherly connection with Erksine (and subsequently killing him), it would have lacked a certain aspect. Iron Man's dad died with Tony thinking his father hated him, and even the impossibly good Superman has lost three parents. Isn't that an attempt to humanize made up characters? Lacking that, we get playground superhero stuff where someone's good "just because", something most people don't identify with.

That said, I do understand that in this case it's the specific male context of said qualifier, to that I have to just admit that it could be handled in a really bad light and to some degree I wouldn't fully grasp what to look for outside of a male context even if I do try to consider every angle. Hopefully some degree of humility helps there, who knows.

[Linliel]

PS yeah, I'm pretty upset about this discussion, particularly being lumped in the corner of the "omg ultra feminazis why don't they just shut the fuck up, 'cry wolf moar'" instead of having my arguments actually looked at. That said, I'm not interested in continuing in on this discussion because of the way it went yesterday. So yeah, I wish you luck Isla.

[Ryko]

This is pretty much what I was saying on facebook. Isladar, good luck. He doesn't really understand this stuff, nor does Sera, when she inevitably jumps in on the bandwagon. There's a bunch of levels you can analyse this on, and these deeper levels, to do with identity and empowerment, seem to be particularly hard concepts to grasp.

First off, poorly explaining something and calling it a trope with very little to follow up and then saying that I "don't understand this stuff" is a cheap shot. We disagreed on something but that's not remotely the same as me shooting you down without giving you a chance to say something that makes sense. I asked you plenty of questions, trying to get a better view of your opinions. None of the were pointed or leading, and the best you came up with is "I don't think they should even acknowledge it, it's not the place for an action game to do so." You're better than that, Lin.

If you have a problem with how Sera responded to you and lumped you in with something, you should probably not do the exact same thing and equate my responses with hers. We don't speak the same way, we don't handle disagreements the same way. It's not my fault that when pressed, people drop two-sentence responses with buzzwords and think that covers their viewpoint. That's why I kept taking exception to the use of it, it doesn't explain anything.

[Linliel]

First off, poorly explaining something and calling it a trope with very little to follow up and then saying that I "don't understand it" is a cheap shot. We disagreed on something but that's not remotely the same as me shooting you down without giving you a chance to ay something that makes sense. I asked you plenty of questions, none of which were pointed or leading, and the best you came up with is "I don't think they should even acknowledge it, it's not the place for an action game to do so." You're better than that, Lin.

What a load of rubbish. There was far more to that discussion line than what you say here. I didn't say that in the slightest, and I gave very good reasons behind why I thought that Lara Croft wasn't an appropriate place for such themes. Then Sera comes in, guns a-blazing, and decides that I'm "crying wolf" and that I have the same views as people she "can't stand". Welp, that really puts me in the mood to discuss things.

And it *is* a trope. It is totally a trope. That's not something that you can just dismiss out of hand, it's not a buzzword. It's a real thing.

[Linliel]

I don't want to get angry again, so I'm going to leave this discussion.

[Ryko]

What a load of rubbish.

I can just screenshot the conversation. You're angry right now but I'd ask that you look back upon the conversation. You weren't attacked by me, you weren't disregarded (your adamant use of dismissive buzzwords were, and only on repeat attempts after I specifically addressed it), and your conversation detoured into a back and forth with Sera rather early over like 5 statuses and I didn't actually participate in any of those until I later responded to Ray on something.

I'd ask you to give me more credit than that, but yesterday was pretty ugly. Either way, she doesn't speak for me and we have completely different styles of discussion.