This topic is about rape

[Abandon]

i smell mass disappointment incoming.

[isladar]

Is it strange that I understand exactly where you are coming from yet I think it is fine? Maybe it is because I'm male, after all... I am the target audience.
Maybe not.

It might well be the target audience thing; people make content that speaks to people. It's really easy to say "shit, that's wrong, and the bad guys do it, so there, justice is served!" That's not inherently bad! What's inherently bad is assuming that's the end of it, or not recognizing that it still paints sexual assault in an entirely male context. Both its initiation and response.

[isladar]

So isladar, are you equally opposed to the woman rising up to a violent husband? Kid, etc? I assume the answer is yes.

If domestic abuse is used as short-hand for strong female character in lieu of actual characterization, i.e., she's strong because she fought off that bad guy, then yes, it's lazy, and it still frames her strength in a male context.

[The Blackrose]

Were you raped as a kid, TBR?

No, but in previous work I have dealt with a special needs child whose close relative was a sex offender.

The question you just asked was ten kinds of fucked up. The kind of fucked up that gets you dragged out in the back alley and gets your ass beat. Humorous to you? You're a sick, twisted piece of shit.

[Sera]

Isla, I've speedread most of your posts. Ryko and I have discussed this topic at length over the past day or so... so I guess humor me a bit as I share my perspective.


For starters, I prefer games to movies. I like the idea that I can interact and still watch, rather than powerlessly (and usually while somewhat bored) watch what happens in front of me. Even if I can't really make any decisions that affect the story (a la Fallout, Mass Effect, et cetera) I enjoy the idea that it puts the power in my hands to submerge myself in a story (in a way that I never felt movies could do.) That said, gaming is moving forward as a medium. We've moved on -- and while games that feature mindlessly kicking ass, shooting people in the face at point blank range for no reason other than sport, and carjacking innocents still exist, there are also games that develop a detailed, emotionally affecting story. I will never forget MGS4 as long as I live, because that is what made me realize that one day, I will be able to PLAY all of my "movies" instead of just watching. I want this to happen. I want to be able to deal with the same topics in my games that I have dealt with before in "older" mediums: books, art, movies, TV, poetry. I want that because VG is the medium I relate to most; it is the medium that I came of age with, that I prefer, that I think is ready to make the leap from silly kiddie games to something I can really immerse myself in. Have you ever wept during or at the end of a video game? Wouldn't it be something if you did? How powerful could that be?

Now, with all that laid down, a bit of a disclaimer/outline: all of this is said from my POV obviously, but more specifically that of a female, and of a woman who has suffered many forms of abuse and assault in her lifetime. I was physically and emotionally abused to a particularly disgusting and brutal degree as a child/preteen/teen, which resulted in my (very eventual) removal from my (single) parent's care -- but not before suffering about 15 years of bruises, cuts, gashes, bite marks -- and those are just the physical marks that were left. The emotional ones were worse. It took me many years to catch up and make up for the damage done to my self image. You're also speaking to a victim of sexual assault. Someone who has undergone an abortion. I've dealt with a lot of exclusively or predominantly female issues, let's just say that. I try not to take myself too seriously regarding my history, because I feel like it doesn't do me or anyone else around me any favors. If people have frank, honest questions about my perspective, experience or my feelings about it, I will always respond. I don't mind when people "just want to understand" or learn -- I'm more than happy to do that because I want people to strive for a heightened understanding of the experiences of others. I have always been that way, btw. It didn't "take me years to talk about it"or anything. I mainly view it as a way to do my part to contribute toward the end of things like discrimination and inequality, however small that part might be. I feel like when people get honest, earnest insight into the challenges and experiences of those who are different from them, they are less likely to engage in behavior that makes others feel alienated or inferior.

Going to post now and keep writing.

[Chun Liroy]

The question you just asked was ten kinds of fucked up. The kind of fucked up that gets you dragged out in the back alley and gets your ass beat. Humorous to you? You're a sick, twisted piece of shit.

You honestly think I give a shit? This is spam, take your feelings elsewhere.

[Ryko]

Yeah, Leroy's finally grown past that point where he goes crying to Miz when his feelings are hurt on this f--wait...

[Charismatic]

bang bang bang
That's the sound of shots being fired.

[Brill Weave]

And then we return to the associations of sexual assault with female characters / characterization, and it's unnecessary, lazy, and ugly.

Yet women still watch Lifetime?

[Charismatic]

Yet women still watch Lifetime?

They come for the men hating, not the rape.

[isladar]

One thing this discussion has reminded me of is a table top RPG called Little Fears. You play as children, fighting against the terrors of Closetland, using your belief to aid you. The game deals with themes of child abuse and neglect in the form of 'monsters' as children would understand them. The game was quite controversial when it came out, but it is, by all accounts, incredibly powerful, respectful, and acknowledges the magnitude of its themes. As I recall it was very vocally praised by therapists and child advocates for how it addresses the topic.

It's not a video game, obviously, but I did want to point out that there are "new media" treatments of culturally untenable subjects that can do the premise justice.

[Sera]

All of that said, let's now talk about taboo, or challenging material in media.

All media has done it up to now: and let's face it guys, not all of the attempts to deal with said situations have been stellar. Mistakes have been made over the years. Not every movie is inspired and sufficiently sensitive to each issue they address, or well executed. Expecting games to get it right out of the gate is a little ridiculous (not to mention completely unrealistic), as no medium has ever done so before, so why should gaming be expected to? Because of the internet. Derp. The fact is, when movies and books and art etc got it wrong before, we were always restricted in our forums to discuss it: barber shops, family gatherings, friends, et cetera. The internet now provides us with an UNLIMITED, UNCENSORED forum to air our (sometimes absolutely retarded) grievances about anything and everything that happens to even slightly offend our absolutely fragile sensibilities. In order to push the envelope now, we have to navigate a minefield of pseudoexperts and butthurt outrage that is pushing back, telling creators "no -- You can't talk about that! You can't do that!" Linliel specifically said that she felt the medium wasn't ready for this sort of material. I find that assessment grossly subjective, unfair, biased, and irresponsible. Who is tasked with the honor of determining when society is ready? Who gets to figure out what we're fit to see?

Edit: Linliel also mentioned that a video game might not take the time to fully investigate and flesh out the psyche of the rape victim. Oh, because every Lifetime original movie/shitty cable TV only feature film that features a rape victim does that? No. Now let's quit pretending that we expect this to always happen, because we're completely ok with it when it doesn't unless it's depicted as something that people still qualify as "juvenile" - like a video game. But guess what? Video games are not just for kids and the faint of heart anymore. There's violent shit out there, and so why not want to move forward from senseless violence and gore to something more emotionally demanding and possibly meaningful?

More importantly, when are we ever "ready" for it? When were we ever with any other medium?

In this case, an idiot director who shouldn't have been allowed to speak in the first place in a PR capacity, used a bunch of really stupid words to describe what is probably less than 3% of the material in a game. We've gotten a wave of outrage over what is ONE aspect of her backstory in this case, but people have spent an entire day reacting as though one man's (albeit RIDICULOUSLY POORLY CHOSEN AND IGNORANT) description of what will essentially amount to one minute of a game defines the entire game.
People are acting like the game looks like this:
LOAD SCREEN > RAEP > GAME OVER > CREDITZ.

Is that how emotionally fueled, illogical and ignorant we are? Why not take a moment to think? Sure, there are other options for her backstory. Maybe some of them are included. As of yet, we don't have any information other than that one word: rape. And btw, it is an attempted rape. PS: Is it remotely believable to anyone that a guy who looks as creepy as that bad guy is would capture & torture a 16 year old teenage girl who LOOKS LIKE THAT and *not* try to rape her? Let's be honest here: whenever any assault is perpetuated upon a female by a male, isn't sexual assault usually assumed or implied? What mugger wouldn't want a crack at the GIRL as well as her wallet when he's feeling particularly brave or the conditions are "right"? So because it is an uncomfortable subject, we should be blind to the idea that sexual assault is a real, tangible threat to women in this world -- even those women we might initially think of as too "badass" or "tough" to be victims?

In a game like this, as a player, you're expected to understand that when you pick up that controller, you *are* Lara -- her experiences are yours. You're not her daddy. Are there other options, other things they could include in her story? Sure. How do you know they haven't? You don't. We don't have that information yet. What we have is a kneejerk, visceral and common internet reaction to the word rape. Outrage over one word, when we don't know anything about the context yet.

This is the part that pisses me off: it trivializes our voice when we DO have something to react over. This half informed, kneejerk outrage will cheapen our outcry when something that we ARE informed about is grossly mishandled. And the internet makes it so this shit happens CONSTANTLY. We are always outraged over this or that women's issue, and in many cases we are not always FULLY EDUCATED or informed about the topic. In this case, we *CAN'T* be, because we only know ONE detail of the game so far.

Why is it that we can't approach this topic because there are other options? It's like me saying, why should I eat this food when there are other options? Well, then when will I ever end up trying anything new? When will I ever get the chance to grow or investigate new things?

We don't KNOW if this will do the premise justice, because we literally know nothing about it except that there IS in fact a scene that implies attempted rape.

[Charismatic]

Meant to say this earlier, but after Sera's WoT, this seems like the perfect spot...
Too bad the attempted rape isn't a QTE so I can fail on purpose.

[Ryko]

PRESS B TO AVOID SODOMY

[Ryko]

The kinect actually can sense your erect penis.

[Ryko]

Okay back to the subject.

[Ryko]

Wait wait one more

The kinect actually can sense your erect penis.

Which is more than you can say for most girls mirite?

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...s0nvxDY9-ckC_g

[Charismatic]

PRESS B TO AVOID SODOMY

...or don't.
Better result.

[Chun Liroy]

Yeah, Leroy's finally grown past that point where he goes crying to Miz when his feelings are hurt on this f--wait...

Callin niggas out on playa hatin' = gettin feelins hurt. yeah nigga, half those rappers got their feelins hurt when called out.

[Ryko]

Leroy, the sheer comparison you just made...

Y'know what? Go get shot in the mouth like 50, then come back and validate that bullshit.

Note that I said get shot in the mouth, not take a shot in the mouth. With you cupping the balls of whatever popular male poster that you can, I know that could have been potentially confusing.