6/13/12 Update - .DAT Mining Discussion

[Prothescar]

Probably Yggr for the intimidation effect.

[Atoreis]

I don't see this fight being hard at all taking a classic approach as long as he doesn't have some sort of dick move near the end.

Zomg going to gear my BLU for SA Cannonball!

[Byrthnoth]

PD won't protect you from the dispelga move, but it and Embrava can't be dispelled so you maintain capped magic Haste, Regain, etc. If you have PD up, the adds can just attack you and it shouldn't matter. To be frank, if you're going to slow-kill the fight seems like it would be done best by about 20-30 people. Just have 9 evasive melee to deal with the 9 adds. Tank it with an O.chain PLD or two and use RNGs to kill it like at 75.

We did not experience a large PDT boost when he spawned adds, so perhaps it matters which adds he spawns or there's some kind of anti-zerg thing going on.

Edit:
Two other things. I'm like 99% sure some of our members last night (specifically one of my mules) didn't have the Odin title and still entered the Odin v2 fight. That doesn't appear to be a requirement in practice.

Also, I'm very sure that I traded Sagheera a smoky chip yesterday and she didn't actually give me 5 ABCs for it, though she did for my other chips. That is probably why they removed her. Also, at least one person in my LS reported having coins on Sagheera before the update and not afterwards. I was pretty sure I didn't have coins before and could withdraw 16 afterwards.

[NynJa]

Perhaps the old RNG+SMN strategy, with a party of melee to take out the adds? It seems to have some "fuck you zerg" measures in place.

[Kirin]

Wait, if they removed Sagheera...do we lose any Relic+1 she may have been upgrading?

[Kyte]

Quests/Missions/whatever are stored on you, not a NPC.

[Slycer]

PD won't protect you from the dispelga move, but it and Embrava can't be dispelled so you maintain capped magic Haste, Regain, etc. If you have PD up, the adds can just attack you and it shouldn't matter. To be frank, if you're going to slow-kill the fight seems like it would be done best by about 20-30 people. Just have 9 evasive melee to deal with the 9 adds. Tank it with an O.chain PLD or two and use RNGs to kill it like at 75.

I strongly think this is a fight which is especially designed to not be zerged (thank God, and finally). There is really no reason to zerg it and there are far too many things which could go wrong during a zerg attempt, leaving you with messed up hate and a less-than-ideal setup to take him out the normal way. Odin has no single move which will wipe you easily, unlike most of the other retarded recent endgame fights. You need to be fast with Paralynas (he casts Paralyga many times), Cursnas (or Holy Water), heals, etc., but that's the way it should be for endgame.

As I said previously, I could easily see taking him down slowly and killing adds along the way (if you do it this way, you need to pace the fight so you're killing adds before new ones spawn). The adds really are not that bad, we had a SMN essentially soloing one for extended periods of time, and like I said before, they have about 30k HP, so they would not take terribly long if you switch most/all of your DDs over to them as they spawn. Odin himself is actually tanked quite easily by a good PLD and DDs focusing on hate management (wtf is hate management? oh yeah, that), so you really don't need an outside melee party if you don't care about using most of the 30 minutes.

Since Embrava is broken and not dispelled by Sanngetall, you'll want two scholars there for full-time Embrava. This could very well all change below 25% if he gains random access to Zantetsuken or some other crazy TP move, but if anything, that's the time when you should actually zerg, or at least try to (just kite or eva hold the last two or three adds away from Odin and focus on killing him as quickly as possible). I'm very much looking forward to trying this fight again, which is something I can't really say about anything else they've added recently.

As far as bodies go, you certainly don't need anywhere near 36, but I can't see doing this with much less than a full alliance (you'd probably survive the whole time, but the slow kill method including taking adds out would be too slow for, say, ~12 people, and it would be extraordinarily difficult to control the up-to-9 adds with 12 people).

[Slycer]

Did Central Apollyon 2, 74 coins, first chest mantle, second earring, third coins.

JPs went before us: Earring as well. Edit: Also Sagheera gone.?

Chest that had items did not have coins? Also, do you happen to remember which boss dropped the chest with the mantle and which dropped the chest with the earring (out of demon, ahriman, or taurus)? I assume you are referring to Sortiarius Earring and Prodigious Mantle?

[Byrthnoth]

Well, I don't think it's possible with substantially less than an alliance. If we'd had another two Anni RNGs and used SAM tanks instead of NINs, we probably could have taken him low enough to see all his TP moves (and kill him if they didn't kill us). The problem is we had 11 people on last night (the most people we've had in weeks) and three of them were me. We actually have another Anni RNG in LS, but she was on WHM last night.

Another thing that I'm not sure I noted. At one point one of the summoned valkyrie's returned to Odin and started hitting our NINs randomly. He had no hate on it, but it wasn't currently being attacked. It's possible that using some TP move causes a hate reset on the Valks. I wasn't paying attention to what mine was doing.

I suggested a pure zerg because it seemed it might work and zergs require fewer players. If it was just a matter of bringing two summoners, one scholar, and a bunch of pimped out DDs I think my LS could do it. Everyone has a good DD and we have enough Summoner mules/etc.

[Slycer]

Central Temenos - Basement II
got Algidus Cape on last coffer (kill all aern and all grah and open euvhi)

Algidus Cape was the euvhi coffer? I assume the aern coffer drops off the last aern killed if no particular aern is the "boss"?

The items arent from which set you kill last btw, it's just random. It might still be tied to a particular set of mobs (I'd bet it is), but best I can tell you can get all three items, or none, in any particular run (just drops coins instead of item if you don't get the item).

[Ophannus]

What if you had an 'add party' that's far away from main alliance that's composed of NIN DD DD DD WHM BRD(or COR) and keeps buffs on themselves and pulls the Valkryie every 10% and just makes short work of it?

[Byrthnoth]

What if you had an 'add party' that's far away from main alliance that's composed of NIN DD DD DD WHM BRD(or COR) and keeps buffs on themselves and pulls the Valkryie every 10% and just makes short work of it?

That would be fine, but they still spawn in sets of three. You could probably have an O.chain PLD hold them while a single party of DDs kills them before the next spawn. I took something like 20% off mine and I wasn't WSing frequently or anything (mostly just alt-tab -> Utsusemi -> back to WHM mule). That takes 7-8 players, while just holding all 9 would take 9 players.

For damage numbers, our Ninjas were hitting for ~10-30 damage on non-crits and ~80-100 damage on crits... Blade: Jin for 292 damage... when they hit. He has high evasion and shadows/food/songs are pretty useless (AoE moves/frequent full dispel), which is why I suggested SAM tanks. He's going to dispel Seigan, but Zanshin and a WS with an attack bonus would go a long way.

Our Anni RNG was shooting for 140~168 damage (with Adaman bullets, I think) and Coronach for ~1000. Flashy Shot brought it up to 1352, and I'm sure she's 5/5 on it. With double minuets her damage went up to a constant 185 damage, which indicates she was at 1.0 cRatio (redundant, but after level correction). I'll try to find out what ammo she was using for sure so we can guess whether or not Odin has PDT.

[Slycer]

I did not see them spawn in sets of three. I saw them spawning one at a time, either HP sync-ed or with some particular TP move (or both). It's possible I'm either going crazy or our kiter was pulling them away too fast for me to really see (and they were splitting up so I didn't see them all at once), but I know at some point I saw two and at another point I saw four of them up, and I'm almost positive that only one spawned the first time one was spawned.

[Byrthnoth]

We definitely had three up and then six up.

[Slycer]

I'll ask them later on when I get back on the game; I must be going insane. In either case, it's not too bad dealing with three at once. You could easily hold two with evasion while killing them one at a time. Of course, the whole killing idea presumes that he does not respawn ones that have already been killed.

[Slycer]

That takes 7-8 players, while just holding all 9 would take 9 players.

Yeah, but killing them you only have three at a time max. With all nine up, if one or two of the holders die, which isn't terribly unlikely considering you'll have nine separate holders, I think it could be a pretty fast domino effect of the other holders dying (unless you had back-up holders at the ready). If they really do spawn in sets of three, I definitely think that you don't bother killing the last set of three, but it's probably worth it to kill the first two.

[phafi]

the valk that went and started attacking the ninjas was the bard after they all 2houred, which is why i asked if she was buffing odin, it took flash sentinel and sb to get it back on me too, was strange considering myself and my whm should have been the only ones with hate.

edit: all the ones out 2houred at the same time. not sure if based on time out or odin's hp(i don't recall when it was)

[Ophannus]

Considering NQ Odin and Einherjar in general was balanced and developed to be winnable with 36 people, I wouldn't be surprised if you needed like at least 20-22 people to win this comfortably. 15-18 probably sounds about right if people have empy/mythics/relics but for casuals or PUG probably gonna need in the low-mid 20's.

[Atoreis]

Why would you want to hold adds that have 30k hp lol?
Assuming you have 3 good melee there with embrava thats what 30 sec per add?
Cant see why you wouldnt be able to kill it with like 12 ppl.
One party to tank and one party to damage Odin and switch to kill add when it pop.

[finalwolf]

Chest that had items did not have coins? Also, do you happen to remember which boss dropped the chest with the mantle and which dropped the chest with the earring (out of demon, ahriman, or taurus)? I assume you are referring to Sortiarius Earring and Prodigious Mantle?

Since I was part of the group I can answer. Nergal (demon NM) produced a chest with Prodigious Mantle and a slew of ABCs.
The Ahriman's chest (forgot it's name) produced a chest with Sortiarius Earring and a few ABCs.
Balas(?) (taurus NM) produced a chest, no items, some ABCs.