6/13/12 Update - .DAT Mining Discussion

[Ophannus]

I think he wanted to hold the Valkyries instead of kill them because it's unknown as of now if they respawn like the ones in the Regular Odin fight. Can you have a WAR/RDM with Twilight gear just keep reraising and diagaing them and dying in a corner or do they share hate? Maybe an Ochain PLD/RDM spamming Aeolian Edge for hate can hold all 9 of them if they're in a corner far away from Odin with a RDM or WHM keeping them alive.

[Byrthnoth]

Naw, I wanted to hold them because it takes about three more real players to kill them and those are bodies we don't have.

[Slycer]

Since I was part of the group I can answer. Nergal (demon NM) produced a chest with Prodigious Mantle and a slew of ABCs.
The Ahriman's chest (forgot it's name) produced a chest with Sortiarius Earring and a few ABCs.
Balas(?) (taurus NM) produced a chest, no items, some ABCs.

Thanks. Thinking these items are specific to the armoury crates from individual mobs, so I'm lining it out as such on the Wiki:

https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/CS_Apollyon_II

Also, FU @ SE for not dropping the timer on Limbus, it's gonna be a pain in the ass to waste runs farming once we run out of metal chips and ABC stock. Similarly for Einherjar, I really want to try Odin again and I don't feel like waiting til Sunday ~_~. Maybe there's still hope, though, I mean last night NA primetime there was literally nobody but us doing Temenos, Apollyon, or Einherjar, so it's not like we ran into massive entry competition at the gate. Similar to how they got rid of the inane time restriction on Nyzul Uncharted after they realized no one really gave a crap about it, although I guess it depends on whether there's competition during JP time also.

[Atoreis]

Naw, I wanted to hold them because it takes about three more real players to kill them and those are bodies we don't have.

That have no sense.
You need 9 ppl to hold them.
You need 0 ppl to kill them because they are part of the group to kill Odin.

2x tank 2x SCH COR SMN
4x DD WHM SMN

Put DD at Odin till it pop add then kill add in 30 sec and go back to Odin.
SMNs are really just for PD if you want to zerg last % so they might not be needed even
SCHs for Embrava

Cant see a batter way to do it with less ppl.

[Slycer]

Really the main problem I see with a zerg is Yggr. If he uses that, it's going to eat a good 30+ seconds of your zerg with rampant intimidation, unless your main/only damage source is RNGs (which then really isn't a zerg and wouldn't totally necessitate PD anyway). I didn't notice how long it lasted, but it was a good amount of time and had a high intimidation rate. That's why I'm giving a full-on melee zerg strategy maybe 50/50 at best to work, if he gets Yggr up once or twice, you'll be out of PD by the time you can deal decent damage, and as soon as PD drops, nine adds will eat you up if you only have ~12 people.

Ato's setup above seems like a decent start, though I think 15 bodies would be a safer number (I'd add one healer and two DDs to that setup). Would stress that two of those DDs should be RNGs so that you can continue to pelt him while his intimidation effects are up, and also just generally to stay out of range of stupid AoEs and make life a little easier for healers. Also, Odin's tank should most definitely be a PLD. A "tank" to hold adds can also be any job with high evasion, NIN, THF, whatever. One WHM is fine as long as at least one of the SCH is being played actively as a healer - you'll want fast removal on Paralyga, he spams it frequently. Also make sure people watch range, and obviously keep Odin facing away from as many people as possible (Gagnrath and maybe other TP moves are far-reaching frontal relatively high damage AoE).

[Damane]

That have no sense.
You need 9 ppl to hold them.
You need 0 ppl to kill them because they are part of the group to kill Odin.

2x tank 2x SCH COR SMN
4x DD WHM SMN

Put DD at Odin till it pop add then kill add in 30 sec and go back to Odin.
SMNs are really just for PD if you want to zerg last % so they might not be needed even
SCHs for Embrava

Cant see a batter way to do it with less ppl.

I dont know, but if I am reading correctly, his abilitys are now random, while adds pop at a fix % of HP. how do you want to deal with 10000 needles when it happens random and your DDs are outside of range killing adds?

[Slycer]

I dont know, but if I am reading correctly, his abilitys are now random, while adds pop at a fix % of HP. how do you want to deal with 10000 needles when it happens random and your DDs are outside of range killing adds?

Unless he uses it only at low HP, he doesn't use that move. Neither Byrth nor I saw that move happen (Byrth had him down to mid 50% HP, we had him down to low 40% HP). He has the new move Zantetsuken Kai, but that only hits one person (really high damage, but survivable with full HP and/or EA/Scherzo/Migawari).

[Damane]

Unless he uses it only at low HP, he doesn't use that move. Neither Byrth nor I saw that move happen (Byrth had him down to mid 50% HP, we had him down to low 40% HP). He has the new move Zantetsuken Kai, but that only hits one person (really high damage, but survivable with full HP and/or EA/Scherzo/Migawari).

ah, thats nice and leaves some flexibility open. My guess is, he will start useign it below 25%

[Byrthnoth]

There's no more 10,000 needles, it seems. Or, at least, we didn't see it.

Atoreis's setup looks like it might work, but it's 12 characters (we went with 11) and you'd probably want at least 11 players for it (we went with 8, can dualbox the summoners). And everything in there has very high defense. Admittedly, I wasn't paying attention to it, but I only took my Valkyrie to something like 80% in >15 minutes of autoattacking on Thief.

We basically went in banking on the O.chain PLD's ability to hold 9 Valkyrie's at once (if they spawned, because there was no data) and it didn't pan out, so that's why I was looking at holding.

Edit: Oops, beaten.

[Slycer]

My guess is, he will start useign it below 25%

Ya, would not be surprised. Are distributed damage moves still blocked by Scherzo/EA? I know Migawari works for Discoid, but idk about Scherzo/EA. If not, then Perfect Defense for the last 25% or so.

[Damane]

There's no more 10,000 needles, it seems. Or, at least, we didn't see it.

Atoreis's setup looks like it might work, but it's 12 characters (we went with 11) and you'd probably want at least 11 players for it (we went with 8, can dualbox the summoners). And everything in there has very high defense. Admittedly, I wasn't paying attention to it, but I only took my Valkyrie to something like 80% in >15 minutes of autoattacking on Thief.

We basically went in banking on the O.chain PLD's ability to hold 9 Valkyrie's at once (if they spawned, because there was no data) and it didn't pan out, so that's why I was looking at holding.

Edit: Oops, beaten.

well in that case it looks definitly like you need to kill adds, otherwise I dont see how to bring him down that easy. Melees with instant burst dmg and okeish DoT should be great for adds (SAM, DRK). maybe 2x SAM that can skillchain back and forth would drop the adds pritty quickly (yes omg SCs!) if they dont resist magic at all. Just throwing out ideas.

[Airenn]

Chest that had items did not have coins? Also, do you happen to remember which boss dropped the chest with the mantle and which dropped the chest with the earring (out of demon, ahriman, or taurus)? I assume you are referring to Sortiarius Earring and Prodigious Mantle?

Late reply but:

Chest that dropped items ALSO dropped coins. Roughly 5ish.

First set of mobs, directly North of entering: Demon dropped the mantle.

Second set: Ahriman dropped the earring.

Oops Final got it.


Side question: Was there an emergency maint today and/or is Sagheera back?

[Khiinroye]

We got a Potens Grip from Central Temenos Basement II (ghrah chest). We started on the left side, not the right as the picture in the wiki states. It could be a random chance for which portal is the starting point.

Everything except the NMs was susceptible to sleep. The two NMs (ghrah and euvhi) each gave 10 minute time extensions. Regular mobs are very weak.

[Byrthnoth]

There are many ways to skin a cat, but I think the earlier suggestion of essentially dedicating a party to disposing of adds was a good one. I do not think that you will be able to really zip through them, though. If I had 18 real players with the right jobs/etc, I'd use this setup:

Tank party: SAM/WAR x2, WHM, SCH x2, SMN
DD party: BRD, COR, 4x RNG (Anni preferred)
Add party: THF, NIN, SAM, DD, BRD, WHM

Basic strategy is exactly what you expect from that setup:
1) Embrava everyone for the entire fight (two scholars)
2) Keep Minuets + Chaos Roll on the RNGs. Try not to pull hate and eat a full dispel.
3) SAMs tank Odin. WHM and SCHs keep them alive. If one dies, switch it with the SAM in the Add party.
4) NIN, THF, and one of the DDs each pulls an add every time a triple spawns. The rangers and generic DD help kill the SAM's add, then the RNGs go back to killing Odin. The SAM+DD move on and help the NIN while the THF continues to hold/tank it, and then move on to the THF's. I honestly doubt Odin would be dropping quickly enough for this to matter, but you don't want to force another set to spawn while you're still dealing with the first. It might be smart to have the RNGs help with the first two Valkyries.

That should give you dramatically more damage that we went in there with even assuming the add party never helps damage Odin. Obviously at 25% the SMN would PD the tank party in anticipation of some serious shit going down and the SAMs would 2-hour. RNGs could also do their classic combo (WS -> Wing -> WS -> Barrage + EES -> WS?) too. If Odin starts spamming Zantetsuken, the SAMs will die and finishing the job will be the job of the add party.


It's not a strategy that I can implement, though. It looks like I'll be farming Tier 3/Oldin for the rest of my amps.

[Slycer]

We got a Potens Grip from Central Temenos Basement II (ghrah chest). We started on the left side, not the right as the picture in the wiki states. It could be a random chance for which portal is the starting point.

Everything except the NMs was susceptible to sleep. The two NMs (ghrah and euvhi) each gave 10 minute time extensions. Regular mobs are very weak.

Are any of the Aerns a "boss" or was it just the last one killed to drop the crate or what? Also, TE is just for killing, not a separate blue crate?

[Radec]

Are any of the Aerns a "boss" or was it just the last one killed to drop the crate or what? Also, TE is just for killing, not a separate blue crate?

Just the final aern dropped a crate. TE just for killing, no blue.

[Septimus]

Question for Bryn: Did they change the normal Limbus zones? or just add the Metal Chips ones/higher tiers?


Did Central Apollyon 2, 74 coins, first chest mantle, second earring, third coins.

JPs went before us: Earring as well. Edit: Also Sagheera gone.

Last update: I think SE realized it will be WAY too easy to do boss runs at the moment.

Example: We went with 11 people. Each got a KI. NOW EACH person can buy a Boss pop chip because they have a KI. (assuming each person has 150 coins)


So, basically all these 11 people need to do is farm normal zones (assuming they aren't changed) and obtain 150 each and that's 11 boss runs. :3 There's gotta be something else to that...

Maybe needing the KI to enter and losing it?

Actually, I don't think that it is all that bad of a system. If you had to clear Basement II/CS II each time, you would get a bunch of people congested into one zone. If everyone gets a KI, then you can diffuse people trying to get 150 coins for the Arch NMs into the regular zones and extra chances of Metal Chips.

[Septimus]

Oh, on an unrelated note to my last post, these seem to be the new monster abilities added into this patch:

Level 3 Petrify
Citadel Siege
Catastrophic Malfunction
Zantetsuken Kai
Electrocharge
Rear Lasers

Ahriman in Temenos does "Level 3 Petrify". (Fucking assholes.) Odin does "Zantetsuken Kai". "Electrocharge" and "Rear Lasers" are both reentries of existing abilities. (The second Electrocharge may be the one that causes self-destruct on the gun pods.) This leaves "Citadel Siege" and "Catastrophic Malfunction", probably for Arch-Ultima and Arch-Omega respectively.

[Hyshio]

I've seen yes and no answers and I'd like to ask if anyone has confirmed it or not. Do you still even with the mark KI need 9 feathers to reserve Odin v1? Or has it been changed to 3 to reserve? Reserve. Not participate, but to reserve the v1 chamber.

[Prothescar]

AW SHIT CITADEL SIEGE

Also willing to bet that Catastrophic Malfunction is the gunpod explosion thingy.