6/13/12 Update - .DAT Mining Discussion

[Byrthnoth]

I confirmed tonight with my group that the new Odin's Chamber requirements only apply to the person entering. No one else needs any feathers (or titles, or anything). If you read exactly what they said from the update:

Trade a Smouldering Lamp to the Entry Gate while in possession of the valkyrie feather key items from each of the three Wings.

Smouldering Lamp is the one you buy from the NPC. It is only talking about the leader's entry conditions. People trading Glowing Lamps apparently have no restrictions at all, though they failed to mention it. Maybe it's intended, iwanttobelieve, etc. We're obviously doing Odin every run from here on out. If you have two mules, you have the 6k ampuoles it costs you to enter.

[noodles355]

Body is imo best TP body for DRG with 492 polearm.

How? You need AF3+2 body to 5hit a 492 delay lance.

I think the following set is ideal for DRG TP with Herya's -
Herya's/Pole Grip/ /Thew
Phorcys/Ganesha/Brutal/Ghillie+1
AF3+2/Brego/Rajas/Tyrants
Athelling/Goading/Phorcys/AF3+2

Herya's/Rose/Hagneia
Phorcy/Ganesha/Ghillie+1/Brutal
AF3+2/AF3+2 or Phorcy/Tyrant's/Rajas
Rancorous/Phos+1/Phorcy/AF3+2
Should be better.

[Kujah2010]

If you read my edit Noodles you can 5hit the 492 heryas as /war using Murzim body and no phos +1, which is mega rare + expensive for the time being.

Also the set you have posted is a 5hit only as /sam, 19.0tp return per hit only as /war, i believe the 2nd set I posted to be superior -

Herya's/Rose Strap/ /Hagneia
Phorcys/Ganeshas/Brutal/Ghillie +1
Murzim/Ogier/Rajas/Tyrants
Athelling/Goading/Phorcys/AF3+2

20.4tp/hit /war

[Atoreis]

How? You need AF3+2 body to 5hit a 492 delay lance.


Herya's/Rose/Hagneia
Phorcy/Ganesha/Ghillie+1/Brutal
AF3+2/AF3+2 or Phorcy/Tyrant's/Rajas
Rancorous/Phos+1/Phorcy/AF3+2
Should be better.

Herya's/Rose/Hagneia
Phorcy/Ganesha/Ghillie+1/Brutal
Enif/AF3+2/Tyrant's/Rajas
Rancorous/Goading/Phorcy/AF3+2

With this you need 3/4 stardiver and rajas durin ws.

[Atoreis]

If you read my edit Noodles you can 5hit the 492 heryas as /war using Murzim body and no phos +1, which is mega rare + expensive for the time being.

Also the set you have posted is a 5hit only as /sam, 19.0tp return per hit only as /war, i believe the 2nd set I posted to be superior -

Herya's/Rose Strap/ /Hagneia
Phorcys/Ganeshas/Brutal/Ghillie +1
Murzim/Ogier/Rajas/Tyrants
Athelling/Goading/Phorcys/AF3+2

20.4tp/hit /war

Yes 20.4 in tp phase but you lose 15sTP also for WS and Assuming Rajas, Herya, rose, brutal thats only 18.2TP with 4/4 Stardiver. Thats not even 5 hit yet.
Also when would you want to be on /war and need 5hit anyway?

[noodles355]

He would need 16STP and always land 4/4 hit Star/Drakes. 24STP if more sensibly built around 3/4 hits.
Also you couldn't remove any of that STP for soul jump, and would also have to leave most of it on for spirit jump.

Herya's/Rose/Hagneia
Phorcy/Ganesha/Ghillie+1/Brutal
Enif/AF3+2/Tyrant's/Rajas
Rancorous/Goading/Phorcy/AF3+2

With this you need 3/4 stardiver and rajas durin ws.

Hmm yeah not a bad idea. Against my set above (using bullwhip) you gain ~.6% Haste and 2% QA in exchange for 14Str and 24~5 Attack. I'm not 100% which would be better with OAT lance (same STP requirements as Herya's), it would have to be close.
What do you think about using Phorcys in that set over AF3+2 hands? Trades 2DA for 4Str & 18Attack. Again prolly dependant on using OAT or Herya's.

[Atoreis]

He would need 16STP and always land 4/4 hit Star/Drakes. 24STP if more sensibly built around 3/4 hits.
Also you couldn't remove any of that STP for soul jump, and would also have to leave most of it on for spirit jump.



Hmm yeah not a bad idea. Against my set above (using bullwhip) you gain ~.6% Haste and 2% QA in exchange for 14Str and 24~5 Attack. I'm not 100% which would be better with OAT lance (same STP requirements as Herya's), it would have to be close.
What do you think about using Phorcys in that set over AF3+2 hands? Trades 2DA for 4Str & 18Attack. Again prolly dependant on using OAT or Herya's.

I believe Enif set will work much better with Herya than OAT. QA from Enif will be reduced by 40% from OAT. Actually I wonder if Genesha mala is best choice for OAT.

There is also modyfication for this set that puts you on true 5 hit (change hands to ogier's and grip to pole/duplus).

I would for sure use Phorcys hands with OAT but Im not sure about set for Herya.

[noodles355]

I don't think it's as important to make it a true 5hit. It should be rare you get 1/4 or 2/4 stardiver and for those times you can spirit link for the extra TP. For one-hit proc WSs in VW etc you can just swap in Ogier's hands during WS as most of their dmg is pretty crap anyway.

I think Mala was still best neck for OAT. There aren't loads of options for neck: Ganeshas, Nefarious or Rancor (with Atheling) mainly.

Well at least I have homam body sitting on moogle, tho will probably suck to get HQ body part. And lance. Lance will also suck.

[Slycer]

In case anyone cares, it's any two Apollyon AF+1 materials to upgrade Arch-Omega part to Murzim (not just the specific jobs on Murzim). Guy in my LS got it with SCH material and something else yesterday. Likewise, I'm sure it's any two Temenos AF+1 materials to upgrade Arch-Ultima stuff to Shedir.

[NynJa]

worrying about store TP...#twohanderproblems

[diasetsu]

I believe Enif set will work much better with Herya than OAT. QA from Enif will be reduced by 40% from OAT. Actually I wonder if Genesha mala is best choice for OAT.

This is not the first time I have seen you say things like QA is reduced by OAT. I thought I already corrected you somewhere else, but perhaps you never read my post there. QA reduces the effectiveness of OAT. Check order goes QA>TA>DA>OAX. So with just using 4% QA and 40%OAT for example you get:

Your way: Example= 1.472 attacks per round
Your Enif Set /SAM=1.524
Enif Set /WAR=1.581

QA is always worth it, whether you are using OAT or not
Correct way: Example=1.504 attacks per round
Enif Set /SAM= 1.556
Enif Set /WAR= 1.613

[Septimus]

worrying about store TP...#twohanderproblems

This is why I miss dual wielding on WAR.

[Diomer]

I confirmed tonight with my group that the new Odin's Chamber requirements only apply to the person entering. No one else needs any feathers (or titles, or anything). If you read exactly what they said from the update:


Smouldering Lamp is the one you buy from the NPC. It is only talking about the leader's entry conditions. People trading Glowing Lamps apparently have no restrictions at all, though they failed to mention it. Maybe it's intended, iwanttobelieve, etc. We're obviously doing Odin every run from here on out. If you have two mules, you have the 6k ampuoles it costs you to enter.

Can confirm this too; really nice to know. Got Odin v2 to 18% with 15 including mules, probably could've won, but had a few errors that cost us some deaths and a double weakened RNG. Geirrothr being spammed is pretty painful with lower numbers though so I doubt you can go much lower and even with 15 (including mules although there would be a lot more room for error if our 6 mules were real people ); you have to fight damn near perfect to win.

[Worlace]

Is it confirmed that to enter Odin v1 only one person needs the 1 feather from each wing to enter vs all 9?

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, that's what I confirmed. Diomer confirmed it for Tier 2 as well. It seems only the entering person needs to meet any of the requirements for the whole party to enter.

[Khamsin]

What about the rest of the alliance? Did an Old Odin run the other day, only had feathers from two wings, so I purchased a third feather so I'd have one from each wing to be able to enter after the event leader made the reservation.

Did I waste ampoules by doing so? Could I have entered with the rest of them without buying a third feather?

[Radec]

What about the rest of the alliance? Did an Old Odin run the other day, only had feathers from two wings, so I purchased a third feather so I'd have one from each wing to be able to enter after the event leader made the reservation.

Did I waste ampoules by doing so? Could I have entered with the rest of them without buying a third feather?

Yes, sadly, wasted ichor. Had 1 character with feathers and full ally+spares without who all got in fine tonight.

[Nightfyre]

This is not the first time I have seen you say things like QA is reduced by OAT. I thought I already corrected you somewhere else, but perhaps you never read my post there. QA reduces the effectiveness of OAT. Check order goes QA>TA>DA>OAX. So with just using 4% QA and 40%OAT for example you get:

I think most if not all of us are aware of that, which would lead to the supposition that he's phrasing it that way because OAT is the pre-existing stat in this comparison while the use of QA is the stat in question. I tend to phrase it similarly when talking about adding sources of mutiattack on top of existing multiattack gear/traits.

[diasetsu]

I would assume most people do understand the hierarchy of multi-attacks, but I am pretty sure Atoreis is confused. If QA being reduced by 40% was just a poor phrasing it would be one thing, but I don't believe that's what it is.

Thats because you can equip a lot QA/DA with DRG now and all that DA and QA is very limited by OAT. If you equip lets say 5%QA and 20%DA with OAT you can only proc that QA and DA when OAT wont proc. That means OAT actually reducing your hit rate when it proc in the same round as QA and also doesnt give additional hit rate when it proc during the same round as DA.

Showing this very simply its:
5%QA 15 more swings during 100 rounds
20%DA 19 more swings during 100 rounds (because it can proc on 95 hits that QA wont)
34 more swings

For OAT it looks like:
5%QA 9 more swings during 100 rounds
20%DA 11 more swings during 100 rounds
OAT 40 more swings during 100 rounds

When OAT is obviously more its not 40+34 but 40+20.

Now add 2%QA and 10%DA

normal weapon
7%QA 21 extra swings
30%DA 28 extra swings

OAT:
7%QA 12.5 extra swings
30%DA 16.5 extra swings
OAT 40 extra swings

That's what was posted a few days ago on ffxiah by him. Looks more like confusion then poor phrasing.

[Ophannus]

Can confirm this too; really nice to know. Got Odin v2 to 18% with 15 including mules, probably could've won, but had a few errors that cost us some deaths and a double weakened RNG. Geirrothr being spammed is pretty painful with lower numbers though so I doubt you can go much lower and even with 15 (including mules although there would be a lot more room for error if our 6 mules were real people ); you have to fight damn near perfect to win.

Setup/Strategy? We only got to 47% before timeout, DDs were getting one shotted on the pets because the RNGs stayed on Odin to keep dealing damage while the melees handled them, I guess they should engage the pets so they die faster? Our relic/empyrean DDs with embrava weren't doing much to Odin, with buffs wearing and Odin's jesus defense, melees were hitting him for poop damage(like 400-600 weapon skills), only RNGs were breaking 1k.