6/13/12 Update - .DAT Mining Discussion

[Byrthnoth]

What is Arch-Ultima's regen like and how resistant to damage is he?

I'm considering trying to summoner burn Proto-Ultima him with ~10 summoners. If he has 100,000 HP, not much/no auto-Regen, and you have 30 minutes to kill him, 10 summoner would pretty much do the trick, eh? Screens aren't important because you can do whatever damage he takes at the moment. AoE death moves aren't important and wouldn't even slow you down that much really.

[Alistaire]

Can I get a tl;dr version of setup/strat needed for neo-limbus, primarily apollyon?

[Tachi]

What is Arch-Ultima's regen like and how resistant to damage is he?

I'm considering trying to summoner burn Proto-Ultima him with ~10 summoners. If he has 100,000 HP, not much/no auto-Regen, and you have 30 minutes to kill him, 10 summoner would pretty much do the trick, eh? Screens aren't important because you can do whatever damage he takes at the moment. AoE death moves aren't important and wouldn't even slow you down that much really.

10 summoners should be overkill. I don't think Arch-Ultima has any Regen at all, my Thunderstorm were doing 1400-1600 dmg (bypass Mana Screen), didn't try Predator Claw. 2 Zantetsuken did 4328 and 6189 dmg.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, there's my lowman strategy then. Did you get resisted very frequently?

Also, kind of random, but what do you gear for when you cast Odin? Max MP? I've noticed he does terribly against voidwatch NMs.

[Tachi]

No resist for me but Predator Claw could perform better without Nirvana. Max Pet MAB/BP dmg (can't confirm if this is really useful though) and at least 1188 MP for Zantetsuken. Odin has always been effective on Omega/Ultima in general.

[Atoreis]

10 summoners should be overkill. I don't think Arch-Ultima has any Regen at all, my Thunderstorm were doing 1400-1600 dmg (bypass Mana Screen), didn't try Predator Claw. 2 Zantetsuken did 4328 and 6189 dmg.

Assuming 1000damage BP for no nirvana then 10 SMN would kill it in like 7 min (counting BP as only damage). You should be safe with 4SMNs (3 if you plan to do 3x Odin). So probably tank (PLD probably best for this strategy) healer and 3 SMNs should do the trick. I would go with good SCH as healer (or WHM as healer and SCH as 6th person) and do skillchains with Immanence to magic burst thunderstorms. Can also cast embrava + regen V on tank to be more safe.

[Ophannus]

Tried Odin tonight with 30ish, only had I think 2 or 3 RNG and a COR though. Damage was decent but we timed out at around 25%. Main problem was RNGs were holding back since they had capped hate with the PLD and literally every other shot would pull hate away and they didn't want to risk dying and being weakened. Kind of wish SE reconsidered adding the hate-shed effect to Super Jump for players behind the DRG, would have been useful for this kind of thing. We put DDs on Odin under 40% to zerg him down faster but intimidation rocks us and 10k needles damage adds up fast with people in range. Also random Breakgas crippled the melee DD efforts.

[Helel]

Can I get a tl;dr version of setup/strat needed for neo-limbus, primarily apollyon?

You can sack pull the bosses in CS Apollyon II and just kill those to win. Just make sure the sacker is outside pt. We cleared all mobs with just three of us though, rdm blu thf. Didn't need to sack. Got 81 coins so we made back the 75+6. Recommend bringing a BLU for the bosses; sudden lunge is great for hundred fists and chainspell (can't be silenced).

That's the extent of my experience thus far.

[Slycer]

Confirming this.

90% Kai
80% Pet
70% Kai
60% Pet
50% Kai + 10k Access

To expand on this, Yggr is what spawns adds, and the full list is:

90% Kai, 80% Yggr/adds, 70% Kai, 60% Yggr/adds, 50% Kai, 40% Yggr/adds, 30% Kai, 20% Yggr (no adds), 10% Zant

Geirrothr is closer to 20k aoe than 10k btw, and Kai is not single target, it's just a small frontal AoE.
Edit 2: Pointing out that Kaustra is very significant DoT and greatly outdamages the Regen from Embrava, so you need to actively cure people quite a bit if he casts that because it cannot be erased.

[Tachi]

Geirrothr at 47% : 11,772 dmg (11 targets)
Geirrothr at 41% : 12,051 dmg (13 targets)
Geirrothr at 34% : 14,580 dmg (10 targets)
Geirrothr at 25% : 16,569 dmg (9 targets)

[Diomer]

Geirrothr at 47% : 11,772 dmg (11 targets)
Geirrothr at 41% : 12,051 dmg (13 targets)
Geirrothr at 34% : 14,580 dmg (10 targets)
Geirrothr at 25% : 16,569 dmg (9 targets)

Hrm, well, unless there's something I'm missing... with those numbers, it really pays to limit it lifespan 50% and under. Although I suppose it could be % based too instead of increased damaged with uses. This is the only SS I have with Geirrothr damage at 1% so I don't know exactly how many people got hit by it, but there should've been a lot of people in range for it. Although, I guess I could be reading too much into those numbers with shell off and things like that but I guess at bare minimum, it's not 10K needles anymore.

Spoiler: show

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...58f6002891.jpg

Also, a second Embrava was a huge difference; plus we had a couple more people and a couple more mules this time, but we cleared with 10 minutes remaining.

While not important to the fight or anything, the bind from Geirrothr lasted over an hour on one of the mules and never dissappeared until he warped and got erased in Jeuno.

[noodles355]

Main problem was RNGs were holding back since they had capped hate with the PLD and literally every other shot would pull hate away and they didn't want to risk dying and being weakened.

1) Why weren't they subbing /drg for High Jump (33% enmity loss).
2) Being weakened does not affect Ranger at all (apart from needing to reapply buffs). Dying would reset your hate, and as long as you didn't get double weakened, you would be absolutely fine.

Regarding different Geirrothr numbers. Is it reduced by PDT or MDT (like discoid)? If so, if some members were in PDT/MDT and some weren't, then the total damage done would be different each time.

[Diomer]

1) Why weren't they subbing /drg for High Jump (33% enmity loss).
2) Being weakened does not affect Ranger at all (apart from needing to reapply buffs). Dying would reset your hate, and as long as you didn't get double weakened, you would be absolutely fine.

Regarding different Geirrothr numbers. Is it reduced by PDT or MDT (like discoid)? If so, if some members were in PDT/MDT and some weren't, then the total damage done would be different each time.

5k is a lot to vary by, but maybe. Either way, it's more than the 10k it was before. Also wtf @ losing with 30ish; I'm not sure I understand how that's even possible unless it's like all AH geared people or atrocious party setups.

[Tachi]

1)Regarding different Geirrothr numbers. Is it reduced by PDT or MDT (like discoid)? If so, if some members were in PDT/MDT and some weren't, then the total damage done would be different each time.

PDT but I retained the highest number of damage taken on a single person without PDT gear multiplied by the number of targets.

[Slycer]

It sounds like it scales up from 10k to over 20k as he drops from 50% to 0%. When he got it off at around 15% yesterday, it was at least 18,000 total damage. I wasn't thinking about it at the time, but when he used it in the 40%s, it must have been considerably weaker. Anyway, we wiped around 15% because we had a few dead already and weren't able to eat all that damage; I'm thinking get EA/Scherzo on a few people (maybe 3-4 people? the two of them together are -90-95% DT as long as the hit would have done more than 75% HP, so it shouldn't go over ~500-700 damage per target) to mitigate that damage and have everyone else stand out of range? We tried a clusterfuck around him with people in range of Geirrothr but out of range of the other TP moves (a la old-school Odin), which worked for a time, but his AoE enfeebles actually become quite dangerous if you do that... Breakga, Paralyga, Sleepga, Silencega can all fuck you up. And Kaustra sucks bigtime, although I don't think that actually killed more than one or two people.

[Ophannus]

Kaustra was raping our DDs, its like 200-300/tick. /DRG on RNG is an interesting idea, I'll look into seeing if any of our RNGs actually have that sub leveled. We probably could have won if our RNGs were playing more aggressively but since they were taking hits, it's difficult for them to not die, and to run in and high jump could be a bit risky but I'll ask them. We got it down to 45%ish with 10min left and rembrava'd. DDs were dying left and right from needles(brought most DDs down to 500-700 HP) Kaustra did 200-300 initially and mages would try to mass cure but kaustra lasts a very long time, and dealing 300hp/tick at a time to 18+ people is hard to keep track of healing everyone. I think also a flaw of our strategy was having only RNGs deal damage until 79% when the first wave of adds spawn. The DDs were literally chilling on the side until the 3 RNG and 1 COR got it down to 79%, probably ate up a lot of time. We were trying to play it safe though and not have people die or pull hate off the PLD and RNGs, in retrospect we probably could have had the DDs engage until 79% then switch to adds, seeing as Odin's TP moves are rather benign the first 50% of his HP.

[Slycer]

I think also a flaw of our strategy was having only RNGs deal damage until 79% when the first wave of adds spawn. The DDs were literally chilling on the side until the 3 RNG and 1 COR got it down to 79%, probably ate up a lot of time. We were trying to play it safe though and not have people die or pull hate off the PLD and RNGs, in retrospect we probably could have had the DDs engage until 79% then switch to adds, seeing as Odin's TP moves are rather benign the first 50% of his HP.

How many DD did you have? Add more RNG and get rid of some DD would be my first suggestion. Had 5 RNG last night and damage was not a problem at all without DD on him. It's not super fast, but you have 30 minutes to kill him, so you don't need to be super fast. Just had DD focus on adds. Like I said above, shit hit the fan when he started spamming needles, especially as they got stronger at lower HP, and the AoE debuffs/Kaustra were messing us up. I think with EA/Scherzo and keeping most people out of range, the last 50% would be considerably easier.

[Ophannus]

Problem was we had the BRD mule in the PLD party for Ballad(was complaining of MP issues) and the other BRD was in RNG party. We had tons of melee DDs but most of our RNG dont have relic/mythic/empyreans we have a Yoichi/Gandiva and an Annihilator in LS and an armegeddon COR doing some nice last stands, so like 3 RNG 1 COR. We had 1 SMN but I think he was in a random party, not with major DDs for EA. Would it be easier to PD the RNG party under 40% so they can go all out and let the DDs basically just Zombie it since theyre gonna get needles/intimidated anyway? Did you guys have DDs on odin at start? It took a good 8-12 min I think to get Odin down to 79%, the 8-12 min includes entering, waiting for everyone to get in, people eating food, buffing, embravaing every party(like 5 parties), getting everyone into position and letting PLD build hate for a min to get a headstart on the RNGs. The two drgs had Angon up full time on Odin and ran in for Jumps when they were up(hateless/TPless damage). Maybe since the DDs have embrava we can have the DDs run in to WS only between TP moves for some extra damage.


Also I kinda wish now that SE implemented what they originally intended to for Super Jump. A few patches ago they wanted to implement a "hate shed" effect for the player directly behind the DRG during Super Jump, like a reverse Trick Attack. Too many DRGs, including myself QQ'd though because we wanted more damage, not something that(back then) was completely worthless. In retrospect, having a 50% hateshed ability for a player behind the DRG would be invaluable for an event like this since 1 or 2 DRGs could alternate super jump on each RNG and erase all their hate, though I guess a THF could do just the same, if not faster with 1min Collaborator taking 33% every 1min vs 50% every 3min.

[noodles355]

Kaustra was raping our DDs, its like 200-300/tick. /DRG on RNG is an interesting idea, I'll look into seeing if any of our RNGs actually have that sub leveled.

If your Rangers actually played the job at events at 75 cap and didn't just burn that shit in abyssea then theyw ill have /drg sub. Our requirements for RNG (And many other LSs too) is /drg sub as standard. If you don't have one of the following: Yoichinoyumi/Annihilator/Drg Sub, then you will never play RNG at events.

[Ophannus]

I'm not saying that there's no merit in /DRG but I will say I have almost never ever heard of /DRG being spoken of anywhere even on RNG forums and even back at 75. Wouldn't Decoy Shot be useful as well?