Feminism Thread

**Correction** · 2014-09-23 18:27

Originally Posted by Priran

a thousand people implicitly agreeing "all this commotion is about people trying to harass an indie dev" does.

#gamergate is about people trying to harass outspoken women and little else. There's a raft of evidence identifying that, but here's everything the letter says

We believe that everyone, no matter what gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion or disability has the right to play games, criticize games and make games without getting harassed or threatened. It is the diversity of our community that allows games to flourish.

If you see threats of violence or harm in comments on Steam, YouTube, Twitch, Twitter, Facebook or reddit, please take a minute to report them on the respective sites.

If you see hateful, harassing speech, take a public stand against it and make the gaming community a more enjoyable space to be in.

Thank you

This amounts to 'if you're a member of a community and you see other members in that community turn into harassing shitlords, don't be silent about it.' If you find fault with that I'd like to hear it from you, not Yiannopoulos doing your thinking for you.

One of the people the email group has a problem with is TotalBiscuit.

Elaborate.

**hey** · 2014-09-23 18:41

Originally Posted by Ksandra

See, now if he could have explained that and without using terms like cis, then I wouldn't have responded the way I did. Yes slutwalk definitely does not include most women of color.

It's a bit hard to have a discussion about feminism without ever using the words cis or heteronormative. If you can't understand such simple concepts, you should probably read up on it, because you will have a hard time participating in this thread otherwise.

**Rhinox** · 2014-09-23 18:50

Wow. I actually felt the breeze of all the eyes rolling at once.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-23 18:53

Originally Posted by hey

It's a bit hard to have a discussion about feminism without ever using the words cis or heteronormative. If you can't understand such simple concepts, you should probably read up on it, because you will have a hard time participating in this thread otherwise.

those weren't the parts I didn't understand, it was slut walk . Cis et. al. words just sound aloof. They are buzzwords. You can talk like a normal human being without trying to throw a ton of labels in an attempt to sound smart.

Also, lol at me NEEDING to use cis et. al. in order to participate in this thread. Have you read this thread?

**Priran** · 2014-09-23 18:58

Originally Posted by Correction

#gamergate is about people trying to harass outspoken women and little else. There's a raft of evidence identifying that

what a very convenient narrative to reframe it as

Elaborate.

They link this article and discuss it, essentially to say to just ignore him and his fans while also making fun of him. Again, only thing he's done is criticize them for poor journalistic ethics.

**hey** · 2014-09-23 19:39

Originally Posted by Ksandra

those weren't the parts I didn't understand, it was slut walk . Cis et. al. words just sound aloof. They are buzzwords. You can talk like a normal human being without trying to throw a ton of labels in an attempt to sound smart.

Also, lol at me NEEDING to use cis et. al. in order to participate in this thread. Have you read this thread?

Cis is a buzzword? Really? You're joking, right?

**Correction** · 2014-09-23 19:55

Originally Posted by Priran

what a very convenient narrative to reframe it as

No need to reframe anything, a casual perusal of the last 500 posts in this thread is evidence enough. You got people parroting the most outlandish crap harvested from the most disreputable sources on the internet, going as far as insisting the harassment are 'false flag operations' and that other people's sex lives are everybody's business and that's why spreading unfounded rumors about it is all in the interests of making the world better or something. And this column seriously tries to use Cultural Marxism as a cudgel? It's telling that pro-gamergate critics are resurrecting more and more 1950s boogeymen as a reaction to folks adding feminist critiques to the rotation of the gaming enthusiast press cycle.

They link this article and discuss it, essentially to say to just ignore him and his fans while also making fun of him. Again, only thing he's done is criticize them for poor journalistic ethics.

People linked an article, discussed it and decided not to cover the event in a mailing list? Oh the scandal....

Originally Posted by Ksandra

Cis et. al. words just sound aloof. They are buzzwords.

This is extremely wrong. Discussions of the cis/trans divide are essential to understanding third-wave feminism and what it is trying to add to the growing body of work that encompasses the movement.

**quannum** · 2014-09-23 20:00

you like to attack the messenger, "lol that's a right wing site" but back when video games were the whipping boy for violence simulators and all that crap, it was the right wing who mostly came to defend games then too. You don't have to agree with the whole set of someone's beliefs to understand that they can still make valid points. they were probably just defending against gun control or something like that, but they had the facts on their side.

**GoggleHead** · 2014-09-23 20:04

Originally Posted by hey

Cis is a buzzword? Really? You're joking, right?

You're under the impression it isn't? That's laughable.

**Correction** · 2014-09-23 20:06

Originally Posted by quannum

you like to attack the messenger, "lol that's a right wing site" but back when video games were the whipping boy for violence simulators and all that crap, it was the right wing who mostly came to defend games then too. You don't have to agree with the whole set of someone's beliefs to understand that they can still make valid points.

It's not a knee-jerk reaction. Brietbart, Infowars, Return of Kings, the Internet Aristocrat, thunderf00t, etc. can all be judged by their words and their openly stated agendas, and its from these sources that a lot of the posts I'm seeing here are drawing their arrows without adding a scrap of original, valid thought. It's extremely toxic for any movement to latch on to these standard bearers who also cheerlead the erosion of civil liberties for minorities of all stripes.

I think you'll find no disagreement from me that the enthusiast press would be well-served to find a wedge to put between their need for access and the frequently validated perception that they consider the subjects of their coverage friends. But so far the balance of evidence presented in the case against the press is pretty light compared to the constant personal hounding feminist critics and their supporters are receiving. #gamergate is measured on that balance.

Originally Posted by GoggleHead

You're under the impression it isn't? That's laughable.

It isn't. It's a term borrowed from chemistry and used in gender politics to identify a group of people amongst the spectrum of gender identification.

**GoggleHead** · 2014-09-23 20:11

Yes, and it is still a buzzword.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-23 20:18

Originally Posted by Correction

This is extremely wrong. Discussions of the cis/trans divide are essential to understanding third-wave feminism and what it is trying to add to the growing body of work that encompasses the movement.

You can turn this:

One example of these is criticism towards "Slutwalk" and how it highlights a heteronormative, cis version of feminism mostly associated with white women (i.e. a Muslim feminist woman may not identify with the message of Slutwalk).

And say it like this:

One example of these is criticisms towards "slutwalk" and how it is done by white female feminists without regard for how their fellow Muslim feminists cannot or have no desire to participate in.

And it wouldn't sound like he was throwing out terms left and right, but still convey the same message.

Again, Madmad can talk however the fuck he wants, he doesn't have to follow what I say. I am simply stating that if he's going to talk like the former, I am probably not going to respond to it. And considering he was quoting me, I think it fair I let him know.

**Correction** · 2014-09-23 20:22

Originally Posted by Ksandra

Again, Madmad can talk however the fuck he wants, he doesn't have to follow what I say. I am simply stating that if he's going to talk like the former, I am probably not going to respond to it. And considering he was quoting me, I think it fair I let him know.

It would be less problematic if your name weren't red and you didn't begin what you said with ''If you are going to actually want to discuss this" as if to set a moderation bar for just one type of post, and not the other poisonous shit that gets posted in this thread on the regular.

I mean, you are allowed to believe that 'cis' and 'heteronormative' are buzzwords, but you'd still be just as wrong. And even more wrong to want to exclude them in a discussion on feminism. For what it's worth I liked the links you shared from the intersectionalist POV.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-23 20:27

Originally Posted by Correction

It would be less problematic if your name weren't red and you didn't begin what you said with ''If you are going to actually want to discuss this" as if to set a moderation bar for just one type of post, and not the other poisonous shit that gets posted in this thread on the regular.

I would hope by now people have come to realize that I am not putting an admin stamp on every damn thing I say. I am usually pretty clear when I am talking about a rule vs. my opinion.

I mean, you are allowed to believe that 'cis' and 'heteronormative' are buzzwords, but you'd still be just as wrong. And even more wrong to want to exclude them in a discussion on feminism.

I am not excluding anything. I am saying what I would respond to.

For what it's worth I liked the links you shared from the intersectionalist POV.

I talk a lot more about this stuff on the mommy boards (because you know, they are actually women), and there is a much larger group of feminists there than here, so I get a better perspective. This shit is never mentioned here, and I would imagine it's because we don't have any WOC posters.

Oh and it seems feminism is a daily debate and terms like cis and heteronormative are never used. So yeah, forgive me for not believing you about them not being buzzwords.

**Charismatic** · 2014-09-23 20:32

While I agree that red and blue names do need to watch what they say, I think its pretty clear that Ksandra wasn't speaking "as an admin" on that one. Drop the BS.
Also, yes, they are buzzwords used by tumblrinas. They ARE spreading though.

**quannum** · 2014-09-23 20:34

**Correction** · 2014-09-23 20:41

Originally Posted by Ksandra

Oh and it seems feminism is a daily debate and terms like cis and heteronormative are never used. So yeah, forgive me for not believing you about them not being buzzwords.

http://www.transadvocate.com/so-i-he...ing_n_9982.htm

Using the cis- and trans- taxonomy to reference gender behavior was used as early as 1914. The transgender community didn’t invent its use, nor is its current use inconsistent with its use in 1914. When discussing gender, cis simply means same and trans simply means to cross. Whether it was 1914 or 2014, when someone uses cis regarding gender, it is simply a recognition that one is not trans. Likewise, whether it was 1914 or 2014, when someone uses trans regarding gender, it is simply a recognition that one is not cis.

It's terminology and nothing more. It does sometimes get used to slur straight white males (see Lief's old postings) but it's a taxonomical term nevertheless.

**Priran** · 2014-09-23 20:45

Originally Posted by Correction

No need to reframe anything, a casual perusal of the last 500 posts in this thread is evidence enough. You got people parroting the most outlandish crap harvested from the most disreputable sources on the internet, going as far as insisting the harassment are 'false flag operations' and that other people's sex lives are everybody's business and that's why spreading unfounded rumors about it is all in the interests of making the world better or something. And this column seriously tries to use Cultural Marxism as a cudgel? It's telling that pro-gamergate critics are resurrecting more and more 1950s boogeymen as a reaction to folks adding feminist critiques to the rotation of the gaming enthusiast press cycle.

And people on the anti-SJW side aren't harassed? Frankly it's fucking 2014 and if you're saying you're honestly surprised enough by random nobodies being assholes on the internet to characterize any group they associate with as being harassment-based, you're being deliberately disingenuous.

People linked an article, discussed it and decided not to cover the event in a mailing list? Oh the scandal....

It'd be less transparent if you didn't do the thing I said you were doing right after you denied doing it. I never said their shittalking TB was a scandal, I'm saying it somewhat betrays their real motives when they're privately mocking somebody who's only spreading the message they're trying to insist nobody is really interested in spreading.

**Charismatic** · 2014-09-23 20:46

Originally Posted by Correction

http://www.transadvocate.com/so-i-he...ing_n_9982.htm

It's terminology and nothing more. It does sometimes get used to slur straight white males (see Lief's old postings) but it's a taxonomical term nevertheless.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-23 20:49

Originally Posted by Correction

http://www.transadvocate.com/so-i-he...ing_n_9982.htm

It's terminology and nothing more. It does sometimes get used to slur straight white males (see Lief's old postings) but it's a taxonomical term nevertheless.

None of this disproves they can't be buzzwords. While buzzwords are usually new, they don't have to be.

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