Feminism Thread

[Correction]

random nobodies being assholes on the internet to characterize any group they associate with as being harassment-based, you're being deliberately disingenuous.

When Sarkeesian outed some of these 'random nobodies' she was accused of doxxing them here and elsewhere, she literally cannot win with these people. And the #gamergate movement exists as a backpedal from the original Five Guys slanderfest, egged on by a jilted ex-boyfriend. This genealogy is not exactly hard to root out. I can search #gamergate on twitter right now and see more posts with namecalling than those without.

I'm sure #gamergate supporters are getting harassed and that's deplorable. I just wish people in this thread expressed the same about the harassment targetted at Quinn/Sarkeesian/Frank.

I'm saying it somewhat betrays their real motives when they're privately mocking somebody who's only spreading the message they're trying to insist nobody is really interested in spreading.

If you're going to ascribe a singular motive to a group of over a hundred people discussing the TB business you'll need to start by naming and shaming rather than going with 'they' when naming your villains.

[BaneTheBrawler]

I'm sure #gamergate supporters are getting harassed and that's deplorable. I just wish people in this thread expressed the same about the harassment targetted at Quinn/Sarkeesian/Frank.

I have equal amounts of don't care for both of these events. Part of being on the internet is learning how to deal with trolls... the best tactic being to ignore them. All I see is a bunch of scrubs.

[Priran]

When Sarkeesian outed some of these 'random nobodies' she was accused of doxxing them here and elsewhere, she literally cannot win with these people.

That's because what she did was in fact doxxing.

And the #gamergate movement exists as a backpedal from the original Five Guys slanderfest, egged on by a jilted ex-boyfriend. This genealogy is not exactly hard to root out. I can search #gamergate on twitter right now and see more posts with namecalling than those without.

The genealogy is exactly as hard to root out as you'd like it to be. Zoe Quinn was just a last straw. People have been pissed at games journalism being driven by SJW agendas and fraudulent shilling for years. Again, I'm really sure you'd like this to be about gamers collectively deciding out of nowhere to gang up on some no-name indie dev simply for being a promiscuous woman, but it isn't.

If you're going to ascribe a singular motive to a group of over a hundred people discussing the TB business you'll need to start by naming and shaming rather than going with 'they' when naming your villains.

From the limited information available in the leak, specifically talking about TB:
Devin Connors of The Escapist
Rod Breslau of OnGamers
Sarah LeBoeuf of The Escapist
Dan Stapleton of IGN

[Kuya]

Okay. So i started reading the thread again and now some people here have a problem with the word cis.

For the purpose of conversation, what should we call people who aren't trans? If i want to draw a distinction between a female feminist who is trans and a female feminist who is cis, what word should i use to replace cis?

[Meresgi]

Okay. So i started reading the thread again and now some people here have a problem with the word cis.

For the purpose of conversation, what should we call people who aren't trans? If i want to draw a distinction between a female feminist who is trans and a female feminist who is cis, what word should i use to replace cis?

Cis as in cisgender?...I had to look this shit up because I have never heard it before and holy fuck im going to go jump off a balcony now. I mean according to Wiki it dates back to 98 so I guess it's not a new word..but goddamn if there arn't terms for every little thing nowadays, and if you use the wrong term, which sometimes change, you may as well castrate yourself with a fishing hook.

[Kuya]

Okay. So would you rather we refer to people who aren't trans as... not trans, despite the fact that cis is shorter and is the opposite of trans so that we can avoid making you angry for no discernible reason?

[Priran]

Okay. So i started reading the thread again and now some people here have a problem with the word cis.

For the purpose of conversation, what should we call people who aren't trans? If i want to draw a distinction between a female feminist who is trans and a female feminist who is cis, what word should i use to replace cis?

If you take "transgender" to mean "gender dysmorphic" I would say that trans is a temporary label applied to someone who is dysmorphic, once they transition they are no longer trans, and no term is needed for people who are not dysmorphic.

If you take "transgender" to mean "a perpetual, nebulous state of masculinity and femininity in which you may demand people address you with science fiction pronouns" I would say grow up.

[Meresgi]

Okay. So would you rather we refer to people who aren't trans as... not trans, despite the fact that cis is shorter and is the opposite of trans so that we can avoid making you angry for no discernible reason?

I would honestly rather not give any shits about someone's sexuality unless we're getting ready to visit sexyville lol

Yeah I get WHY we have the term. Also totally thought it was cis as in sissy-boy or something when I first read it.

If you take "transgender" to mean "a perpetual, nebulous state of masculinity and femininity in which you may demand people address you with science fiction pronouns" I would say grow up.

Ummm, i'm actually a "Heurgenderistic Human" and require you to address me as such from now on.

[Correction]

You're conflating the topic of transgenderism with pronoun politics. Most transpeople i know are still happy to be called 'him' or 'her' based on their own identification. And as transgender matters meet with a lot of cultural and political resistance around the world having the terms trans and cis is not only useful but scientifically acceptable. Dismissing them as 'buzzwords' makes it sound like you want it to go away, which comes off as immature.

[Priran]

I would honestly rather not give any shits about someone's sexuality unless we're getting ready to visit sexyville lol

Worth pointing out that despite its being lumped into LGBT for whatever reason, being trans is not a sexuality.

[Galkaeater]

I don't think its fair to paint everyone who posts on twitter in favour of gamegate with the same brush, its easy when you don't like or want to criticize something (in this case shitty gaming media) and you want your voice heard is to join in with a movement/hashtag against it even if this movement/hashtag has all kinds of other baggage.
But really like most social media activism it was always pointless, (those girls are still missing) Kotaku & co will always be shit and the best thing to do is just avoid them, besides streamers and youtubbers are becoming more important now and the only way for gaming blogs to stay relevant is click bait.

also Cis is not a buzzword though something like cisplain would be (I made that word up but it sounds like something you would actually find on tumblr anyway)

[Priran]

You're conflating the topic of transgenderism with pronoun politics. Most transpeople i know are still happy to be called 'him' or 'her' based on their own identification.

I'm not conflating them, these two groups laying claim to the same word accomplished that. You can't just say "trans" in these circles anymore, you have to explain whether you're (to use their own reappropriated terms) "truscum" or "transtrender", which is part of why trans is an increasingly useless word.

Personally I'm totally fine with telling a 12-year-old tumblrite who thinks "transgender" is a gender-unto-itself and that dismorphic people are traitors for wanting to assimilate into one gender or another that xe should go fuck bunself. Is that immature? Don't care.

[Rhinox]

Can someone look up buzzword for me please.


Apparently there's a negative connotation to it for some fucking reason.

[Galkaeater]

buzzword is a buzzword

[Kuya]

If you take "transgender" to mean "gender dysmorphic" I would say that trans is a temporary label applied to someone who is dysmorphic, once they transition they are no longer trans, and no term is needed for people who are not dysmorphic.

If you take "transgender" to mean "a perpetual, nebulous state of masculinity and femininity in which you may demand people address you with science fiction pronouns" I would say grow up.

Transgender is an identity label, while gender dysmorphia is a pathological category in the DSM 5. They do not mean the same thing.

If you talk to transsexuals, you will hear two kinds of opinions. Some transsexuals will not want to be labeled as transsexuals because they feel it invalidates the gender or sex they feel they are. Other transsexuals will say they are "female transsexuals" or "male transsexuals" because they say a female transsexual's life experiences (specifically the transition and social rejection) are experiences that female born women or "cis" women don't ever experience. Either way, you can either use transsexual because that is what the person identifies as, or you can use transsexual to mean someone who has transitioned or wishes to transition from one sex to the other. A transsexual may cease to be dysmorphic once she feels she's successfully transitioned to her desired sex, but she may continue to identify as transsexual. For demographic and medical purposes it might still be useful to use the transsexual category.

That's just the transsexuals though and the problem we have here is that different words mean different things in different countries. For example, in Puerto Rico, transsexual and transgender don't mean the same thing. Transsexuals are people who feel the sex they are born as is not the sex they feel they are psychologically. Transgender is an umbrella team to mean anyone who doesn't neatly fall into the category of male or female gender and may have a combination of both. As I understand it, in english speaking countries transgender and transsexual is used interchangeably. Here, for example, a man with feminine features can be considered transgender if he doesn't intend to transition via hormones and/or surgery. If he wants to change his sex via hormones and/or surgery, he is transsexual.

So yes, there are people who exist in what you call a "nebulous state of masculinity and femininity" because their gender doesn't neatly fall into either category. I wouldn't say they need to grow up, but i am not sure if you were trying to be a dick for no reason or just didn't understand the distinction.

Hopefully what i just explained will be useful to somebody, if not you.

[Priran]

Can someone look up buzzword for me please.


Apparently there's a negative connotation to it for some fucking reason.

"an important-sounding usually technical word or phrase often of little meaning used chiefly to impress laymen"

Does it count as a negative connotation if the negativity is apparent in the definition

[Rhinox]

So cis is a buzzword.


I don't see what's so controversial about that.

[Kuya]

This rhinox guy is outrageous, give him a book deal and put him on fox news. I'm funding this shit.

[Rhinox]

Is my cis privilege bothering you Kuya? My apologies.

[Kuya]

Nah, i'm cis too. Most transsexuals are busy getting kicked out on the streets by their families and whoring themselves out for food and hormones to be able to read your comments and get mad about it.

Thanks for asking though.