Feminism Thread

[Lyall]

See, I think it does matter. I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of people unfamiliar with trans people are going to be unaware of the term. As has been mentioned, if you look it up on social media you're going to see it used as an insult more than anything else.

Most people are going to wonder by the .3% need to use a term to describe the 99.7%. They're not "different" so why do they need a title? And given how volatile the introduction of the term is to those unfamiliar with it (if you don't hear a friendly trans-circle use it politely, odds are you're going to see someone on tumblr using it like an insult) it can very quickly become the commonly-unaccepted term. I'm not saying anyone here is using it that way, but I'm saying that those unfamiliar with it, the sheltered manbabies of the world, aren't going to understand the need for it.

[Milkster]

Imagine you'd never seen the word "trans" before, and then suddenly in your video game forums and in your blogs and in your news people suddenly started talking about how "trans scum" are what's wrong with the world. It would very quickly become affiliated with derogatory statements, so even when used correctly it still sets a bad tone.

Maybe I'm just a sheltered manbaby or something but I never heard the term "cisgender" until looong after I'd been called "cis scum" for having the gumption to be born a white dude.

Here's a little cheat sheet to keep up with all the new terms and people you're now oppressing by being white and male.
http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/wiki/dictionary

[hey]

And 99% of the time I see it, it's been used in a derogatory since.

Sounds like 99% of the times you've heard is in that one thread from celeste then.

Same thing with heteronormative, that sounds so condescending, gender roles, etc. All these new terms popping up becuase of internet bloggers has such a air of superiority to them. As if you not conforming to their ideals makes you less of a person.

What? How?

Even the beginning of your post came off as an asshole yet you want to decry others when they get snarky back. It's pretty funny.

I just used the phase he did.

[quannum]

someone mentioned it a page ago, but 4chan is dead.

[Meresgi]

someone mentioned it a page ago, but 4chan is dead.

That which has no life can never die.

Everybody calls it that. Cisgendered people are just Iron Man armor. Everyone else gets to be Hulkbuster, so they're called out to.

Sounds fair to me.

Best post ever.

[Milkster]

Sounds like 99% of the times you've heard is in that one thread from celeste then.
What? How?

I just used the phase he did.

Heteronormative is used to make people that enjoy things that most straight people enjoy feel terrible, if you're LGBTQ+ etc. When gay men like sports, beer, guns, etc they're self hating and trying to be heteronormative scum. That 99% doesn't even make sense since Celeste was banned years ago. So my experiences aren't valid because they don't fit in with your views? Nice.

[Milkster]

Here's a nice post on Tumblr about the wage gap that people say there is.
http://oflovelythoughts.tumblr.com/post/97699378082

Now without the shitty background:
http://oflovelythoughts.tumblr.com/p...9378082/mobile

[Penthesilea]

So quick question...I always get hung up on how to decifer trans-whatever. Trans-woman is a male that identifies as a woman? Or is it a female that identifies as a man?

[hey]

See, I think it does matter. I hate to break it to you, but the vast majority of people unfamiliar with trans people are going to be unaware of the term. As has been mentioned, if you look it up on social media you're going to see it used as an insult more than anything else.

Most people are going to wonder by the .3% need to use a term to describe the 99.7%. They're not "different" so why do they need a title? And given how volatile the introduction of the term is to those unfamiliar with it (if you don't hear a friendly trans-circle use it politely, odds are you're going to see someone on tumblr using it like an insult) it can very quickly become the commonly-unaccepted term. I'm not saying anyone here is using it that way, but I'm saying that those unfamiliar with it, the sheltered manbabies of the world, aren't going to understand the need for it.

Okay, so we have this thing called language. We use it to communicate ideas to other people. Communication becomes very difficult if we don't have a word to describe an idea. The entire point of language is to make communication easier, so it doesn't make sense to leave it in a state where communication is difficult. Therefore when we need refer to an idea that doesn't have a word yet, one is created. It doesn't take much effort to create a word, so even if it is only occasionally used, it's still useful to have, so that when it's needed, it's available.



Trans people make up far more than .3% of people, btw.

[hey]

So my experiences aren't valid because they don't fit in with your views? Nice.

I'm not saying they are invalid, i am saying they are not representative.

[Milkster]

Okay, so we have this thing called language. We use it to communicate ideas to other people. Communication becomes very difficult if we don't have a word to describe an idea. The entire point of language is to make communication easier, so it doesn't make sense to leave it in a state where communication is difficult. Therefore when we need refer to an idea that doesn't have a word yet, one is created. It doesn't take much effort to create a word, so even if it is only occasionally used, it's still useful to have, so that when it's needed, it's available.



Trans people make up far more than .3% of people, btw.

2-5% according to this study:http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resour...sfactsheet.pdf.
Still not at lot for the majority of people to come across Trans* or discuss it in their daily lives.

[Milkster]

I'm not saying they are invalid, i am saying they are not representative.

I'll say the same to you that I said to StumblingDrunk. You will find more instances of cis and such language used to describe people outside of the LGBTQ+ spectrum or are men (white, straight) used in a negative and insulting manner. Tumblr, Twitter, XoJane, Buzzfeed, etc. Now prove I'm wrong.

[hey]

So quick question...I always get hung up on how to decifer trans-whatever. Trans-woman is a male that identifies as a woman? Or is it a female that identifies as a man?

A trans woman is a person who is trans and their gender identity is that of a woman. A women can't be a man.

[Kuya]

Heteronormative is used to make people that enjoy things that most straight people enjoy feel terrible, if you're LGBTQ+ etc. When gay men like sports, beer, guns, etc they're self hating and trying to be heteronormative scum. That 99% doesn't even make sense since Celeste was banned years ago. So my experiences aren't valid because they don't fit in with your views? Nice.

That's not heteronormative. Why do listen to these people? Heteronormative is the presumption that heterosexuality is the only normal and legitimate sexuality. A more extreme synonym is heterosupremacy. What people are doing who say that to you is gender policing.

[Kuya]

So quick question...I always get hung up on how to decifer trans-whatever. Trans-woman is a male that identifies as a woman? Or is it a female that identifies as a man?

Male to female transition.

[hey]

2-5% according to this study:http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resour...sfactsheet.pdf.
Still not at lot for the majority of people to come across Trans* or discuss it in their daily lives.

Right, but it's enough that not having a word to differentiate the other 95-98% of people would be pretty silly.

[hey]

I'll say the same to you that I said to StumblingDrunk. You will find more instances of cis and such language used to describe people outside of the LGBTQ+ spectrum or are men (white, straight) used in a negative and insulting manner. Tumblr, Twitter, XoJane, Buzzfeed, etc. Now prove I'm wrong.

You're making the claim, you prove it.

Oh, right, you're only asking me to because you know it's impossible.

[Lyall]

Okay, so we have this thing called language. We use it to communicate ideas to other people. Communication becomes very difficult if we don't have a word to describe an idea. The entire point of language is to make communication easier, so it doesn't make sense to leave it in a state where communication is difficult. Therefore when we need refer to an idea that doesn't have a word yet, one is created. It doesn't take much effort to create a word, so even if it is only occasionally used, it's still useful to have, so that when it's needed, it's available.



Trans people make up far more than .3% of people, btw.

But they don't make up 51% of people, so you're ALWAYS going to get pushback when telling a majority "No, you're wrong, you're actually THIS word now." Especially if it's a word only used in very specific circles. Someone you've never met, talking about issues you might not give a shit about, is now labeling you for their benefit when you never needed a qualifying term because people are people and gay people are gay people and black people are black people. I can't just be straight guy or white guy or straight white guy, I've not got to be cis guy.

I understand where you're coming from and am playing devil's advocate here, mostly, but at the end of the day, it's still a bunch of strangers explaining how everyone else is wrong for not embracing this term because like, it isn't even that big of a deal, guys, and you really shouldn't argue with it.

It comes off as condescending as fuck to explain why the majority needs to be labeled. It's not an attempt at minimizing, or hiding anything under a rug. It's not giving a fuck and being the majority, which I guess is the entire point of this privileged thing.

I stand by there not being a need to qualify the majority. It being the majority is what makes the other qualifying terms necessary.

Oh, and my use of calling myself a sheltered manbaby was my attempt as showing I realize I'm unarmed here. It technically gave you permission to use the same terminology, but if I'd used the term "stupid cunt" you can see how the tone changes a lot when you ape it.

[Penthesilea]

A trans woman is a person who is trans and their gender identity is that of a woman. A women can't be a man.

Okay so if she identifies as a woman and presents as a woman, why can't we call her a woman instead of just transwoman? I don't get why we need to include that. Also I was using male/female as sex identifiers above, asking if a transwoman is biologically female that identifies as male, or the opposite. Which you answered, thank you.

[hey]

But they don't make up 51% of people, so you're ALWAYS going to get pushback when telling a majority "No, you're wrong, you're actually THIS word now." Especially if it's a word only used in very specific circles. Someone you've never met, talking about issues you might not give a shit about, is now labeling you for their benefit when you never needed a qualifying term because people are people and gay people are gay people and black people are black people. I can't just be straight guy or white guy or straight white guy, I've not got to be cis guy.

I understand where you're coming from and am playing devil's advocate here, mostly, but at the end of the day, it's still a bunch of strangers explaining how everyone else is wrong for not embracing this term because like, it isn't even that big of a deal, guys, and you really shouldn't argue with it.

It comes off as condescending as fuck to explain why the majority needs to be labeled. It's not an attempt at minimizing, or hiding anything under a rug. It's not giving a fuck and being the majority, which I guess is the entire point of this privileged thing.

I stand by there not being a need to qualify the majority. It being the majority is what makes the other qualifying terms necessary.

You don't have to refer to yourself as cis if you don't want to. No one ever asked you to. But in some situations the distinction is important. You don't need to announce your gender identity, race, sexuality, religion, or anything else about yourself unless it is relevant. In a conversation about trans issues, the distinction between trans and cis people is relevant.

Oh, and my use of calling myself a sheltered manbaby was my attempt as showing I realize I'm unarmed here. It technically gave you permission to use the same terminology, but if I'd used the term "stupid cunt" you can see how the tone changes a lot when you ape it.

I apologize if it upset you, that wasn't my intent.