Feminism Thread

[BaneTheBrawler]

is the disturbing attitude among some (hopefully not many) women that accusations of sex crimes are just another weapon part of rape culture? i feel like it should be. it trivializes actual sex crimes and is a significant factor in victim blaming.

[Lyall]

My point was you don't just lose attention for a second and accidentally stick your dick in someone. It takes malicious intent. No amount of fire prevention training or education in the world is going to stop an arsonist, no amount of education and awareness is going to stop a rapist.

Again, possibly my sheltered existence coming through here, but I thought the rules were simple: If she says no, don't fuck her. If she falls asleep, don't fuck her.

[ronin sparthos]

Again, possibly my sheltered existence coming through here, but I thought the rules were simple: If she says no, don't fuck her. If she falls asleep, don't fuck her.

As a former hermit, I implore you to go out and see your fellow males in action, you just might find out your 'simple' rules are lost on many. It's quite a fascinating exercise really.

[Eurell]

no amount of education and awareness is going to stop a rapist.

This is completely incorrect.

Are rapists 100% to blame for their actions? Yes absolutely. Does that make self defense courses or carrying mace or some shit completely useless? Of course not.

[Charismatic]

Does that make self defense courses or carrying mace or some shit completely useless? Of course not.

Only thing is, lots of people act like its a criminal offense to suggest these things. Yes, its true that you shouldn't have to carry mace or take self-defense courses because no one should be trying to rape you (also, most rape isn't stranger rape so this isn't as helpful as it sounds but still not useless) but that's not real life.

There's valid points on both sides but anyone who takes it to either extreme is retarded.

[ronin sparthos]

Education and awareness changes the mindset many men go into the courtship arena carrying. Rather than see women as a conquest to be taken by force, you just might remember that the pair of tits and a vulva standing in front of you is a person and thus does personly things like not give a shit about fucking you.

Our culture and media have profound effects on young males. When you're using porn as your metric for how relationships work or trying to emulate the oft-priased alpha, you're not going to have a good time.

[Lyall]

As a former hermit, I implore you to go out and see your fellow males in action, you just might find out your 'simple' rules are lost on many. It's quite a fascinating exercise really.

Fuck that, there's bears outside.

This is completely incorrect.

Are rapists 100% to blame for their actions? Yes absolutely. Does that make self defense courses or carrying mace or some shit completely useless? Of course not.

I meant specifically having education for guys that says "Hey, don't rape." But I also come from a background where NOT carrying something to defend yourself is just stupid, so I take that for granted. It's my shitty school and neighborhood privilege.

[Ksandra]

This is completely incorrect.

Are rapists 100% to blame for their actions? Yes absolutely. Does that make self defense courses or carrying mace or some shit completely useless? Of course not.

agreed.

Reality is there are rapists out there. Until there are none (lol), there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to protect yourself.

[Xajii]

Only thing is, lots of people act like its a criminal offense to suggest these things. Yes, its true that you shouldn't have to carry mace or take self-defense courses because no one should be trying to rape you (also, most rape isn't stranger rape so this isn't as helpful as it sounds but still not useless) but that's not real life.

There's valid points on both sides but anyone who takes it to either extreme is retarded.

exactly my point thx chari babe

[Xajii]

Men aren't so barbaric that they need courses on how to not fucking rape someone

you'd think that, but in some cases you'd be wrong, y'know, on account of all the... rape...

[ronin sparthos]

I think you're all missing the forest for the trees.

No shit, precautionary actions can be taken to protect yourself from being raped. There are also precautionary methods for not getting robbed but we still want police around. If we choose to live in a culture where we need every woman out there to be a master of the martial arts, that says alot about our culture, doesn't it. It also leaves a convenient escape hatch to shovel blame, namely 'why didn't you protect yourself??' when the question should be 'Where is the fucker that attacked you?'

The argument isn't about telling guys to "Hey, don't rape." because most sane, reasonable people know that obvious point already.

It's more about how men view women in general. There are tons of misconceptions that have been allowed to foster and grow in our society that find themselves rooted in ignorance. The idea that you're weak for losing, the idea men can't be raped, that taking things by force should be uplifted, that smacking your girl around is merely establishing dominance, that women are asking for sexual advances via clothing, that catcalls are somehow endearing and on and on and on.

That's where the real argument is, the ideas and values you hold within that determine how you behave when the opposite sex is across the table/bar/dance floor from you.

[Lyall]

you'd think that, but in some cases you'd be wrong, y'know, on account of all the... rape...

Well yeah, there are horrible monstrous people out there.

I'm actually kind of thankful for my ignorance here; I'd like to believe that most people know not to rape someone and the ones who do are fucked up, not just some dudebro thinking he can get away with it.

...Man, fuck people.

[BaneTheBrawler]

As a former hermit, I implore you to go out and see your fellow males in action, you just might find out your 'simple' rules are lost on many. It's quite a fascinating exercise really.

even just the regular bar scene is super fucking creepy if you really think about it. the concept of wingman and whatnot... it's downright predatory. one reason i really don't like bars.

[Qalbert]

not to mention dumbasses like Limbaugh saying "No sometimes means yes if you know how to look at it"

[archibaldcrane]

I think it would be helpful to teach about power dynamics to get people to understand that for some, the desire to have that absolute control of another is normal, so they can work to find healthy outlets for those impulses as opposed to just jumping at the rare passed out college girl opportunity.

[ronin sparthos]

I think it would be helpful to teach about power dynamics to get people to understand that for some, the desire to have that absolute control of another is normal, so they can work to find healthy outlets for those impulses as opposed to just jumping at the rare passed out college girl opportunity.

Like sports!

Oh wai....

[Mazmaz]

Well yeah, there are horrible monstrous people out there.

This is the misconception right here. The vast majority of rapists aren't "monsters in the bush". They're friends, boyfriends, husbands, co-workers, etc. And due to how they perceive women, and how they think they should be acting, commit acts that they think are ok. How many times have we seen the concept of "getting chicks drunk at the bar so they'd fuck"? How many times have we heard about the wife who "owes her husband sex after X amount of time"? This shit is an engrained set of values that's picked up by men sometime during youth, that perpetuates violence towards women and a disregard for consent.

[ronin sparthos]

Also, some guys just don't realize they're being very, very creepy when they start spitting that A-game. Opening a conversation with how rock hard you are right now is probably not a good first step. Or that you've got an apartment down the block you'd like to ravage her in. Or that she's got a sweet rack.

It's hilarious because straight guys get very defensive when they get a taste of what women have to deal with when gay guys start hitting on them. I know I have. No, you can't put your arm around me and thanks, I didn't need to know my ass looked firm.

But what do I know, I'm just a functional introvert who forays into the bar scene from time to time.

[Thunder]

Yeah, most guys come off as creepy, insecure, unbalanced, uncalibrated, out-of-state, or whatever you want to call it.

And it IS because of engrained values. For every person out there that tries and teach you to work hard, develop, offer value, etc. you have probably 1,000 people who are some combination of insecure, dull, angry, depressed, misogynistic, misandristic, or just a general misanthrope giving advice on how to have social value. +disney movies/other media saying "just be yourself" and other just flat out wrong ideals

But the solution is not going to be to shame guys into suddenly being all-stars lol. That is so counterproductive

Instead, why don't people go out and learn from the very best in how to better behave/act socially? Read what the people on top have to say about it: why him why her - hellen fisher, the art of seduction - robert greene, start with these and you'll find more as you go, maybe even better ones. Or someone could just go out into the internet and find some great pick-up group, pay a couple hundred or few thousand dollars, and get taught in person how to be a person worth talking to. OR someone could just learn for free from youtube vids out there, and so long as you can get past the sometimes misogynistic marketing buzzwords/phrases they have to attract their clientele it has good information for people who have trouble socializing

People don't do that because it's hard. Much easier to identify the world as being scarce and that sex is a commodity that is hard to come by - guys that say they have sex with 50, 100, 200+ women a year must be lying and their advice is bullshit! It's a crazy negative-feedback loop where the guy has no idea, thinks he has it all figured out, so other views are wrong. The world then sucks because things aren't working out and the thought of doing different doesn't even come into play. No wonder guys get defensive if you say they're virgins, can't get girls, or whatever. No wonder guys get desperate when they have a women in front of them. But shaming these people is just going to inflame the issues in these guys

What I don't understand is why feminists go shaming the men when those are the guys their message should be targeting! They have good reason to shame them, about the same a cool kid in high school has to make fun of a loser. But it just wouldn't make sense if that cool kid also wished there were no losers.

[archibaldcrane]

Thinking that the solution to misogyny is POA advice is the dumbest thing I've heard today.