Feminism Thread

[hey]

We're discussing "1 in 4 women are raped", a crime statistic.

We've discussed a few different things related to rape.

[archibaldcrane]

Are you implying that a woman couldn't possibly lie to the police about what she said?

No, but a person lying about what happened on a night she claims she was raped is a completely different issue.

[archibaldcrane]

Youre the one sayin drunk sex is rape

It's more that "consent given when drunk is not consent". If that's the only consent you've received, you're on ice that you should understand to be thin.

[archibaldcrane]

pretty sure I have never said to hubby "hey if we get drunk tonight and we have sex, I won't call the police on you."

and I doubt that would matter in court.

Wait, it wouldn't matter in court because your drunk sex with your husband is always rape, or because it's never rape?

[Ksandra]

Wait, it wouldn't matter in court because your drunk sex with your husband is always rape, or because it's never rape?

If we are going off of drunk sex is always rape (your definition) then the court wouldn't care.

I never said it is never rape.

[Rhinox]

This thread needs a timeout.

[Meresgi]

It's more that "consent given when drunk is not consent". If that's the only consent you've received, you're on ice that you should understand to be thin.

What if they revoke consent when drunk?!

[archibaldcrane]

Everyone eagerly circling around to find some sort of "logical permission" to rape drunk girls says just about everything anyone needs to know about this issue.

[Rhinox]

http://gawker.com/that-type-of-girl-...ium=socialflow


I don't know how women go on living if they are in constant fear of getting raped.
Especially with the very broad definition of what constitutes rape in the hyper feminist crowd.


Fucking lol at the imagery of a sea of black hands reaching out to rape the naked white broad. Wtg gawker

[NynJa]

Everyone eagerly circling around to find some sort of "logical permission" to rape drunk girls says just about everything anyone needs to know about this issue.

Logical permission = girl saying "come fuck me you stud". Unless someones got a gun to their head, a girl saying " i want your dick in my pussy NOW" seems like consent.

[Xantavia]

Logical permission = girl saying "come fuck me you stud". Unless someones got a gun to their head, a girl saying " i want your dick in my pussy NOW" seems like consent.

Quit playing dumb. Its quite simple. If a woman has any alcohol in her system, she obviously isn't thinking straight and can't give consent, hence its rape. Whereas a guy who has been drinking is still fully cognizant, able to make 100% well thought out decisions and should know better.

But in seriousness, I would say people would have different cut-offs of what they consider too impaired to give consent. Never been in the situation myself, but I would most likely not want to get involved with a woman if she had trouble walking without bumping into chairs or needing the wall to stay upright.

[Koul]

Quit playing dumb. Its quite simple. If a woman has any alcohol in her system, she obviously isn't thinking straight and can't give consent, hence its rape. Whereas a guy who has been drinking is still fully cognizant, able to make 100% well thought out decisions and should know better.

But in seriousness, I would say people would have different cut-offs of what they consider too impaired to give consent. Never been in the situation myself, but I would most likely not want to get involved with a woman if she had trouble walking without bumping into chairs or needing the wall to stay upright.

When you have people that are drunk as shit, both men and woman, and they have just the slightest attraction to each other or are just affectionate drunks. It can happen. When I'm destroyed off my ass, I don't care who it is, I'll make out with anyone guy or girl. Then I had the nights where my friends were trying to look out for me but when I'm telling them "no, no no, I like the dude. It's fine" and go home with him only to regret it in the morning. Your friends can only do so much. Not to say there's guys out there who purposefully look out for trashed up chicks/dudes for easy pickings but still. It's one of the reasons I hardly drink anymore or get obliterated. drink responsibly etc etc

[hey]

I think we can all agree there's a fuzzy line between being a bit tipsy and being too drunk to consent, but in cases like what the last couple posts described, it's pretty damn clear. No one expects you to bring a breathalyzer to the bar and make sure they aren't over the limit, but you should use your judgement, and if someone is clearly very drunk, just say no.

[Marootsoobutsu]

I think that dehumanizes the victims of real rape.

This is my big issue, and as one of said victims (as a kid), it really, really pisses me off to no end to have the definition that broad.

I don't give a crap what the law *is*-- if the law is that broad, the definition of rape needs to be changed. If you are *DRUGGED*, it is rape. If you make the decision to get drunk, you should be as liable for all of your actions as you would be for DWI. I don't give a crap if you're able to sign a legal contract while drunk or not: if you're going to a public place, and getting wasted, you should be aware enough that "I'm going to make bad decisions regarding sex" is a possibility, regardless of gender. Someone who makes a decision they regret, who has *DEPRIVED THEMSELVES* of the ability to make sound decisions is so vastly different from someone else *DEPRIVING YOU* of the ability to make a sound decision.

Making bad decisions when you have forfeited agency is so far removed from having agency taken from you is massive, and I don't give the slightest crap about legal agency to sign a contract. There can be a lot of lead in that gray-areas (was she flirting sober, wanted to have sex but felt she needed the drink to get past her inhibitions, with a guy getting drunk with her? Was he completely and totally sloshed when a sober dame picked him up?), in the ethical side of sex-with-drunks, but comparing it to, or calling it rape, is offensive. It's comparing a bar fight to domestic violence: both are violent actions, but the circumstances are so far removed that no thinking person can give them the same real label.

Rape should *ALWAYS* be morally wrong. ALWAYS. There should NEVER be anything like a gray area: Rape should not just be illegal, it should be universally and always reprehensible. Anything less is removing the power of the word, and it diminishes the power victims should receive in sentiment, and in perception. When you start throwing in drunk-sex, you're entering gray moral areas, or even "No, this isn't wrong at all in most people's perceptions." (drunk spouse with sober spouse, for example, where s/he was willing beforehand, for example). Calling *THAT* rape... I cannot find the words to express my rage that someone would say that-- that anyone would say that.

I'm not saying all drunk sex is fine-- there are definitely cases where nailing a drunk person is morally and ethically wrong. It's possible that someone can be raped while drunk. But being drunk and having sex isn't rape. It's not. It takes more than that to be rape.

[Byrthnoth]

If someone is incoherently drunk and you have sex with them, it's rape.

If someone has had a few drinks and might be a little buzzed but is still coherent and expresses interest in having sex with you, then use your judgement. If you don't think she would regret it the next morning (either because you're drunk enough to be optimistic or sober enough to know), then I'd say go for it. If she regrets it the next morning and claims rape, then you just got double fucked.


Refusing a drunk person sex is a lot like taking someone's keys when they're too drunk to drive. You should always do it whenever they've had more than a drink, but in practice you only actually do it when they're visibly intoxicated. Also, both problems are typically solved by having a DD.

[NynJa]

Quit playing dumb. Its quite simple. If a woman has any alcohol in her system, she obviously isn't thinking straight and can't give consent, hence its rape.

One sip of beer = wasted and cant think straight

LOOOOOOOOOLLLOLOL OK



I just read the rest of your post and realized that was sarcasm. Oops

[hey]

This is my big issue, and as one of said victims (as a kid), it really, really pisses me off to no end to have the definition that broad.

I don't give a crap what the law *is*-- if the law is that broad, the definition of rape needs to be changed. If you are *DRUGGED*, it is rape. If you make the decision to get drunk, you should be as liable for all of your actions as you would be for DWI. I don't give a crap if you're able to sign a legal contract while drunk or not: if you're going to a public place, and getting wasted, you should be aware enough that "I'm going to make bad decisions regarding sex" is a possibility, regardless of gender. Someone who makes a decision they regret, who has *DEPRIVED THEMSELVES* of the ability to make sound decisions is so vastly different from someone else *DEPRIVING YOU* of the ability to make a sound decision.

Making bad decisions when you have forfeited agency is so far removed from having agency taken from you is massive, and I don't give the slightest crap about legal agency to sign a contract. There can be a lot of lead in that gray-areas (was she flirting sober, wanted to have sex but felt she needed the drink to get past her inhibitions, with a guy getting drunk with her? Was he completely and totally sloshed when a sober dame picked him up?), in the ethical side of sex-with-drunks, but comparing it to, or calling it rape, is offensive. It's comparing a bar fight to domestic violence: both are violent actions, but the circumstances are so far removed that no thinking person can give them the same real label.

Rape should *ALWAYS* be morally wrong. ALWAYS. There should NEVER be anything like a gray area: Rape should not just be illegal, it should be universally and always reprehensible. Anything less is removing the power of the word, and it diminishes the power victims should receive in sentiment, and in perception. When you start throwing in drunk-sex, you're entering gray moral areas, or even "No, this isn't wrong at all in most people's perceptions." (drunk spouse with sober spouse, for example, where s/he was willing beforehand, for example). Calling *THAT* rape... I cannot find the words to express my rage that someone would say that-- that anyone would say that.

I'm not saying all drunk sex is fine-- there are definitely cases where nailing a drunk person is morally and ethically wrong. It's possible that someone can be raped while drunk. But being drunk and having sex isn't rape. It's not. It takes more than that to be rape.

Having sex with someone without their meaningful consent is rape.If they refuse consent, but you do it anyway, it's rape. If you hold a gun to their head, and they agree to have sex, their consent is not meaningful, and it's rape. If they are unconcious, and they cannot give consent, and you do it anyway, it's rape. If they are drugged and cannot understand the consequences of their actions, it's rape even if they agree.

It does not matter how any of these conditions came about. Whether you are holding the gun yourself, or someone else, whether you found them sleeping, or hit them in the head to knock them out, or whether you drugged them, or they drugged themselves. If they cannot give meaningful consent, and have the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions, having sex with them is rape.

[NynJa]

Having sex with someone without their meaningful consent is rape.

ok

At what BAC level is someone no longer able to give consent?

answer that

[Kuya]

Do we all agree that 'so drunk that she passed out' is too drunk for sex?

[hey]

ok



answer that

I'm not an expert on the effects of alcohol.