Feminism Thread

**archibaldcrane** · 2014-09-29 19:16

Originally Posted by Ksandra

This isn't helpful at all.

We're talking grey area here, a rational actor has to consider the possibility of punishment if he's not sure the girl's drunken consent reflects her sober desires.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-29 19:18

Originally Posted by archibaldcrane

We're talking grey area here, a rational actor has to consider the possibility of punishment if he's not sure the girl's drunken consent reflects her sober desires.

yeah but saying don't be too worried is exactly the problem I am talking about.

thre needs to be a better balance than that.

**archibaldcrane** · 2014-09-29 19:21

Originally Posted by Ksandra

yeah but saying don't be too worried is exactly the problem I am talking about.

thre needs to be a better balance than that.

It would be nice if there was, but it is a miniscule risk, legally. What should concern a guy is whether his own conscience is going to bother him, since the court system won't. Some dudes just want to get their dicks wet at all costs, some actually like treating women like human beings.

**NynJa** · 2014-09-29 19:23

Originally Posted by archibaldcrane

some actually like treating women like human beings.

So now everyone who doesnt share your sentiment that drunk sex = rape are people who think women are scum...cool.

I hope that while you're putting them on that pedestal, you arent looking up their skirt.

**archibaldcrane** · 2014-09-29 19:26

Drunk consent isn't legal consent. Drunk sex could be a lot of things.

**BaneTheBrawler** · 2014-09-29 19:36

i think you guys are hanging up over the difference between "legally wrong" and "morally wrong"

drunk sex is legally wrong (and therefore rape), morally ambiguous (and therefore sometimes still okay). Kinda like statutory rape, which can be applied to an 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. Legally wrong, morally A-OK.

**NynJa** · 2014-09-29 19:43

Originally Posted by BaneTheBrawler

drunk sex is legally wrong (and therefore rape), morally ambiguous (and therefore sometimes still okay). Kinda like statutory rape, which can be applied to an 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. Legally wrong, morally A-OK.

actually most countries/states have an age gap exemption for that reason. Cause its kinda dumb for lil Johnny and lil Jilly, who have been dating for 3 years, that are born 4 months apart, to stop being together because Johnny turned 18.

**Priran** · 2014-09-29 19:58

Originally Posted by NynJa

actually most countries/states have an age gap exemption for that reason. Cause its kinda dumb for lil Johnny and lil Jilly, who have been dating for 3 years, that are born 4 months apart, to stop being together because Johnny turned 18.

Yes, it's almost as if some people realize it's a bad idea to have some morally OK things be legally rape.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-29 19:59

Originally Posted by BaneTheBrawler

i think you guys are hanging up over the difference between "legally wrong" and "morally wrong"

drunk sex is legally wrong (and therefore rape), morally ambiguous (and therefore sometimes still okay). Kinda like statutory rape, which can be applied to an 18 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. Legally wrong, morally A-OK.

you opened a can of worms with that example bane lol.

Many states have what's called Romeo and Juliet laws because states recognized how it was morally ok. States who don't have it, should.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-29 20:19

So trying to read up on this, and it looks like not all drunk sex is rape according to the law.

The fbi has a definition for rape but it is for statistical purposes.

Their definition is that

1. The person was incapacitated (aka blacked out drunk).

or

2. The person was forced/coerced into having alcohol for the purpose of having sex with them.

Huge fucking difference from drunk people can't consent to sex. And I hate you archi until you show me a law that says otherwise.

**archibaldcrane** · 2014-09-29 20:36

How drunk is too drunk is definitely a grey area, there's no disputing that.

**hey** · 2014-09-29 21:05

Originally Posted by NynJa

actually most countries/states have an age gap exemption for that reason. Cause its kinda dumb for lil Johnny and lil Jilly, who have been dating for 3 years, that are born 4 months apart, to stop being together because Johnny turned 18.

It is true in some places though. You could potentially get charged with statutory rape for having sex with someone 1 day younger than you, on the day before their 18th birthday.

**NynJa** · 2014-09-29 21:42

Atleast the "all drunk sex is rape" bullshit is squashed finally, only took 5 pages.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-29 22:25

Originally Posted by archibaldcrane

How drunk is too drunk is definitely a grey area, there's no disputing that.

being passed out according to the law.

**Priran** · 2014-09-29 23:41

Originally Posted by Ksandra

being passed out according to the law.

It says incapacitated, which legally means "lacking mental capacity".

Definition: sufficient understanding and memory to comprehend in a general way the situation in which one finds oneself and the nature, purpose, and consequence of any act or transaction into which one proposes to enter.

Basically, still a grey area.

**Tarage** · 2014-09-29 23:43

I would like the legal eagles in this thread to point me to a SINGLE instance where a woman convinced a guy to have sex who was too drunk to consent "legally", and it resulted in her being convicted as a rapist.

Oh, and I am very much looking forward to the people who are going to state that women cannot rape.

**Koul** · 2014-09-30 00:04

Originally Posted by Tarage

I would like the legal eagles in this thread to point me to a SINGLE instance where a woman convinced a guy to have sex who was too drunk to consent "legally", and it resulted in her being convicted as a rapist.

Oh, and I am very much looking forward to the people who are going to state that women cannot rape.

I wonder if that new law will lead to anything like that. Man gets coerced into having sex with some chick. He goes to the cops saying he was raped because he was drunk and wasn't in the correct mindset. I can see the blogosphere/internet freaking the fuck out already.

**archibaldcrane** · 2014-09-30 00:17

Originally Posted by Priran

It says incapacitated, which legally means "lacking mental capacity".

Definition: sufficient understanding and memory to comprehend in a general way the situation in which one finds oneself and the nature, purpose, and consequence of any act or transaction into which one proposes to enter.

Basically, still a grey area.

Yep. One man's "this chick was totally into me, yelling 'fuck me' and shit!" is another woman's "I don't even remember leaving the bar and I woke up in this stranger's bed with his cum in my pussy" and they could both be telling the God's honest truth.

**Ksandra** · 2014-09-30 00:21

Originally Posted by Tarage

I would like the legal eagles in this thread to point me to a SINGLE instance where a woman convinced a guy to have sex who was too drunk to consent "legally", and it resulted in her being convicted as a rapist.

Oh, and I am very much looking forward to the people who are going to state that women cannot rape.

to be fair, up until 2013 that fbi definition was worded to be acts against women. So you would be hard to find any legal cases yet. But I don't think anyone is denying it can happen.

but again, the fbi definition is not a law. It is a guideline for statistical data when gathering information about rape. You would have to look at each state's wording.

**Koul** · 2014-09-30 00:28

are there any laws or is legal action taken against people who falsify a rape? Like in Belraggas situation.

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