Feminism Thread

[ronin sparthos]

Way to nourish Anita Sarkeesian for years to come.

But I didn't expect much from the MRA / 'high octane interwebs' type dudes that would go to these lengths anyway.

[Rhinox]

Some troll emails a death threat to a university. Proof positive of misogynists out to get anita.


Wonder if he got the inspiration from the guy that called in bomb threat to study an extra day for finals or the guy that called a bomb threat to work cause he wanted an extra day off.


Both known misogynists.

[fantasticdan]

Remember guys it is about journalistic ethics not a targeted campaign of harassment.

What is? I don't get it.

[Galkaeater]

A certain hashtag thats created alot of butthurt and can now be blamed for everything

[Quicklet]

I think it's deplorable that this is used as another opportunity to reinforce the "us vs them" narrative that is so polarizing and part of the reason nobody in the middle wants to be a part of this.

Also, I'd like to know more about the college's response to this. Her statements make it sound like the college isn't taking the threat seriously, which I find puzzling given how threats tend to be handled on college campuses nowadays.

Edit: Relevant post by someone else who has received death threats online: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sd042v

[Priran]

I think it's deplorable that this is used as another opportunity to reinforce the "us vs them" narrative that is so polarizing and part of the reason nobody in the middle wants to be a part of this.

Also, I'd like to know more about the college's response to this. Her statements make it sound like the college isn't taking the threat seriously, which I find puzzling given how threats tend to be handled on college campuses nowadays.

Edit: Relevant post by someone else who has received death threats online: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sd042v

They couldn't guarantee nobody with a weapon would be there. Carrying a weapon with a permit in Utah is legal.

I've gone over that letter like 5 times and I'm still missing the gamergate mention, could you point it out, Correction?

(When you're done looking for it because it doesn't exist, here's a gamergate figurehead getting doxxed+death threats from an explicit anti-GGer.)

[Correction]

Edit: Relevant post by someone else who has received death threats online: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sd042v

People act in ways online they never would in real life and way exactly that is is not yet fully understood.

I've stopped respecting the idea that there's this line to cross between being online and 'real life.' Everyone posting on the internet is doing so in real life. You are getting up in a public forum and saying things to other real human beings also in real life. That doesn't change because the interface changed to a keyboard and a monitor. It's also getting to be pretty well understood why people still act like psychopaths online. It's because they're actual psychopaths. If someone does something with greater frequency online than they would in person, at work, or amongst friends it doesn't shield them from reality because the things one does when they are positive they won't face repercussions say more about a person than when they are knee-deep in consequences for their actions. This is what makes the handwaving and dismissiveness of GG's cheerleaders all the more frustrating to deal with, and why it's really important to ignore the hell out of idiots like Milo Yiannapoulus and Adam Baldwin. They tipped their psychopathy ages ago.

And I don't know how useful TB's advice to a school that receives a threat of a massacre. I guess Brianna Wu should be grateful she had someone there to mansplain things for her?

I've gone over that letter like 5 times and I'm still missing the gamergate mention, could you point it out, Correction?

You're right, it's a complete coincidence. A group that's been stalking and harassing women online I mean putting forward constructive ideas and volunteering time rebuilding journalism to be a bastion of objectivity for the last month and a half had nothing to do with the latest in a pattern I mean completely random distribution of psychopathic threats I mean completely average 12 year old correspondence. Everyone just ignore it, nothing wrong to condemn here.

[tyven]

lelz

[Lyall]

How come its always one loud psycho at a time? You'd think if Gamergate was full of crazy manchildren, these people would be flooded with realistic death threats. You'd think these things would be being disseminated through the community because apparently Gamergate is actually at war with women, and the journalism thing is a smokescreen or something.

How come there's only ever one graphic example of death threats at a time? How are they always caught within moments (seconds, in Sarks' case) and then banned? How come the Gamergate hashtag was awash with people decrying this sort of behavior?

C-O-N-spiracy, man.

[Priran]

You're right, it's a complete coincidence. A group that's been stalking and harassing women online I mean putting forward constructive ideas and volunteering time rebuilding journalism to be a bastion of objectivity for the last month and a half had nothing to do with the latest in a pattern I mean completely random distribution of psychopathic threats I mean completely average 12 year old correspondence. Everyone just ignore it, nothing wrong to condemn here.

The letter specifically references an anti-feminist shooting that happened in 1989, so either GamerGate developed time machines while they were busy plotting all these campaigns to email sponsors of game journalism harassment campaigns or you're one dense motherfucker.

[Lyall]

Hey. GG is the same group of people who've been harassing Sarks for over TWO YEARS. The conspiracy goes back to at least 1989, then.

[Quicklet]

And I don't know how useful TB's advice to a school that receives a threat of a massacre. I guess Brianna Wu should be grateful she had someone there to mansplain things for her?

Well, isn't it the school's responsibility to assess and respond to the threat? The point isn't to dismiss threats completely. The point is that publicizing them can often feed the very people you're trying to deal with and encourage copycats. Trying to shame these people out of existence just isn't going to work. If anything it might make them more angry and dangerous.

Let's not pretend there's some magical solution to dealing with threats and harassment, because it's cultural, systemic, and tied in to a lot of other issues, and unless you want to live in a totalitarian security state there's no simple answer here. Police don't even catch swatting practices most of the time unless the person is dumb enough to get caught by bragging about it.

It's not right to take a small subset of people and generalize them to a much broader group though. It's easy to do in this case because video games are an easy target and the stakes are pretty low, but think of how absurd it would be to apply this to guns, religion, or race.

"Oh those people protesting in Ferguson are just a bunch of looters."

"Oh those Muslims are all a bunch of extremists."

"If you support gun rights then you're supporting the crazies who shoot up people."

"If you support internet privacy/encryption then you're supporting pedophiles and sex traffickers."

Flat out absurd statements. A loud and vocal extreme doesn't justify a witch hunt.

[RKenshin]

I've stopped respecting the idea that there's this line to cross between being online and 'real life.' Everyone posting on the internet is doing so in real life. You are getting up in a public forum and saying things to other real human beings also in real life. That doesn't change because the interface changed to a keyboard and a monitor.

wut

There is a huge difference between saying something in public to someone's face, and saying something over the internet - often to a stranger, often as a stranger, and often behind the complete (or at least partial) guise of anonymity and/or the fact you will more than likely never see the person or be punished for what you say. This encourages people to express not only their most controversial views, but also greatly exaggerate them.

It also serves as the perfect medium for trolling people, and that alone is not psychopathic or even that abnormal. People find amusement in it, and everyone does to some extent - whether you do it directly or you're laughing at/giving attention to the results, ala LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE (or insert poopdeck poster of choice).

Taking it to death threats is of course an unacceptable extreme but by no means unheard of. I mean come on now, all of these death threats that fly around on the internet every day (millions?), whether to celebrities, politicians, the guy teabagging people in CoD, or the person that writes a bad review... you telling me that all of those people would have done the same in real life? Or that they are all equally legit? I bet I could find at least one death threat in the FOX news comments in a good 5-10m. Not that it isn't still wrong or shouldn't be taken seriously when common sense dictates, but they're really not the same thing.

And all of that is amplified even further by the fact that the internet gives a microphone to even the tiniest small-voiced minorities, extremists, and actual psychopaths. But just because there are a handful of legit ones, doesn't mean that anyone who also acts irrational over the internet is likewise psychotic.

[Kuya]

Anita is now on New York times and Washington post.

Amazing. She's managed to from glib idiot to representation of both patriarchal oppression and gun extremism.

[Kuya]

Thanks mras

[Correction]

I mean come on now, all of these death threats that fly around on the internet every day (millions?), whether to celebrities, politicians, the guy teabagging people in CoD, or the person that writes a bad review... you telling me that all of those people would have done the same in real life?

I've stopped being tolerant of it despite being an 'everyday occurrence.' I no longer accept that dealing with and accepting the aforementioned daily sadism as an inevitable part of the internet. Where it matters I'll call it out and I'll never be okay with it anymore. It's no longer okay with me to just shrug and go along with the toxicity. That's really my only answer to how to fix a seriously corrosive problem with a community.

Or that they are all equally legit? I bet I could find at least one death threat in the FOX news comments in a good 5-10m. Not that it isn't still wrong or shouldn't be taken seriously when common sense dictates, but they're really not the same thing.

I didn't say they were the same thing, but that the behavior is rooted in the same sociopathic patterns. At least we both agree it's not cool.

anyone who also acts irrational over the internet is likewise psychotic.

It's not as broad as 'irrationality,' but that there's a strong positive correlation between unfettered bullying online and honest to goodness personality disorders, that's what the study says.

Flat out absurd statements. A loud and vocal extreme doesn't justify a witch hunt.

I agree that people who disagree with things Anita/Leigh/etc have said are too quickly grouped in with misogynists, but it doesn't help when people explicitly don the GG mantle to do so, tainted as it is and resistant as it has become to reform from within. By the same token I wouldn't go around crying 'witch hunt' in response to anti-GG criticism, let alone as a response to people abhorring this latest round of threats and harassment.

The letter specifically references an anti-feminist shooting that happened in 1989

I know it's almost as if there's a common thread of misogyny that's a completely undiscovered mystery that connects the motives behind that attack and the motives behind those sending threats today.

[Ksandra]

I agree that people who disagree with things Anita/Leigh/etc have said are too quickly grouped in with misogynists, but it doesn't help when people explicitly don the GG mantle to do so, tainted as it is and resistant as it has become to reform from within.

food for thought:

This is the same reason many people don't associate with feminism because of the spoiled eggs ruining the whole batch. So, if you want that to change with feminism, you might not want to perpetuate that same kind of reaction to other groups.

[ronin sparthos]

Anita is now on New York times and Washington post.

Amazing. She's managed to from glib idiot to representation of both patriarchal oppression and gun extremism.

Is there nothing the idiot gaming community can't do? Other than appear disheveled, unhinged, misogynistic and knee-jerk. I'd say I'm ashamed to be part of the gaming community but honestly it's been trending toward the toilet or my nostalgia goggles have slowly been lifted.

Congratulations interwebs, Anita will be eating filet mingon and collecting speaking fees for decades while you writhe around in the soil. I can't wait to see her profits on the book deal. Stand aside Malala, your savior is here.

[ronin sparthos]

food for thought:

This is the same reason many people don't associate with feminism because of the spoiled eggs ruining the whole batch. So, if you want that to change with feminism, you might not want to perpetuate that same kind of reaction to other groups.

Abandoning a label because zealots have infiltrated your camp is exactly what *not* to do as it cedes ground to them. They're the ones that need to GTFO, not you.

[Qalbert]

to be fair misogynistic shitheads didn't invade GG, they started it, which is why people who do honestly only care about actual corruption/ethics issues need to disown the 'movement'