Feminism Thread

[archibaldcrane]

Make no mistake, breitbart is a shitty outlet, but the person hwo did this investigation and the e-mails they leaked are legit, and they ARE concerning.

*if you think games journalism is important.

This is standard operating procedure for drug manufacturer / doctor relationships too, and they have people's lives in their hands, but I don't see people starting email campaigns to get donors to stop donating to hospitals who employ doctors who go on drug-sponsored vacations.

Spoiler: show

this analogy is copyrighted by the Archibald Crane Foundation - any reproduction or reuse of this analogy is only allowed with express written consent of the Archibald Crane Foundation

[Kibble]

This is standard operating procedure for drug manufacturer / doctor relationships too, and they have people's lives in their hands, but I don't see people starting email campaigns to get donors to stop donating to hospitals who employ doctors who go on drug-sponsored vacations.

Because video games, motherfucker.

[Ksandra]

*if you think games journalism is important.

This is standard operating procedure for drug manufacturer / doctor relationships too, and they have people's lives in their hands, but I don't see people starting email campaigns to get donors to stop donating to hospitals who employ doctors who go on drug-sponsored vacations.

Spoiler: show

this analogy is copyrighted by the Archibald Crane Foundation - any reproduction or reuse of this analogy is only allowed with express written consent of the Archibald Crane Foundation

well, that kind of thing is actually happening.

For example, New York doesn't allow hospitals to give out free baby formula samples. And that is being pushed everywhere else, too.

[Meresgi]

*if you think games journalism is important.

This is standard operating procedure for drug manufacturer / doctor relationships too, and they have people's lives in their hands, but I don't see people starting email campaigns to get donors to stop donating to hospitals who employ doctors who go on drug-sponsored vacations.

I'm almost positive this is actually a thing. People get really upset about it and how doctors just peddle drugs based on kickbacks from companies.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/240012...ifts-vacations

Gaming journalism is more internet based, so it makes more sense that criticism and action center around the internet.

[Jefe]

So the gamers are the sick and the reviewers the doctors? :kappa:

[Priran]

That's not what is happening in that thread. Orland is saying that the payola wouldn't pay rent, therefore accusations that game journos are all in the pocket of PR firms fall flat because that isn't a sustainable path to take. Jesus man stop reading breitbart.

Yeah, that accusation falls flat because it isn't an accusation. I posted a video of a guy who works in video games PR literally saying what he does is payola and bribery and the journalist audience just chuckles.

[Koul]

Giant explanation on gamergate/happenings/etcetc stolen from someone:

There's a lot of ignorance in the comments about #GamerGate, of which I can't blame any of you for having. The main concern of the #GamerGate community is corruption, collusion, and extreme bias in the gaming media. Where are all of these stories coming from that makes you think it's a movement about misogyny (regardless of all of the women that are pro-GamerGate)? Well, if you honestly want to know, here are some links. And, if you don't want to know, just skip this post:

Let's start with Occam's Razor: http://i.imgur.com/evVV288.png
Here's a full time line of events: http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...10-10_11:18:45!
Here's a 60 second summation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipcWm4B3EU4

These are examples of Doxxing / Harrasing / Threats versus women, minorities, and men that the media have completely ignored because they've happened to people that are pro-GamerGate:

http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInActi...g_from/cl6a6ek
http://gamergateharassment.tumblr.com/
http://i.imgur.com/dwF62tC.jpg

Here's how #GamerGate proponents have dealt with threats, regardless of sides:

https://twitter.com/sanc/status/521211260017606656
http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/201...death-threats/

And, some of the good that #GamerGate has done along the way:

Raising $70,000 to help get women into the game industry: http://apgnation.com/archives/2014/0...ng-capitalists
Raising $5400 to help suicide prevention: https://www.crowdrise.com/nshgamers/fundraiser/loping
Getting theescapist.com to change their ethics policy: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...f-The-Escapist

If, after reading through everyone of those links, you still believe that #GamerGate is made up of thousands of people that hate women and are violent, then you may have a bit of Cognitive Dissonance.

[Meresgi]

So the gamers are the sick and the reviewers the doctors? :kappa:

Yes, exactly

[Charismatic]

Another HuffpostLive on GamerGate.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/seg...c90acf2a000a0a


EDIT: Hadn't watched it as of posting. Just finished. Georgina seems to be the only one on the panel that actually knows what GG is up to. The fact that she talked about the Mercedes-Benz deal means she's up on it as that really just happened today.
I have a feeling the guys there have opinions on GG but aren't actually well-educated about it since they keep mentioning Anita and Quinn when GamerGaters are actually currently focused on a huge boycotting effort, lol.

EDIT2: I'm also getting interested in this again because now they are fuckin' w/ people's money. I want to see how this all plays out.

[Xajii]

On Gamergate:

Misogyny and journalistic ethics are two separate issues. Unfortunately, the topic came to a head because of an event that sparked both. Zoe Quinn's escapades - or perhaps more accurately, her ex's blog post - brought both misogynists AND concerned gamers out of the woodwork. While there is overlap in the population of parties that fall under each category, there is no overlap in the actual content of their concerns and actions. It is possible to be upset with the alleged relationships between Quinn and journalists and the actions of said journalists without condoning death threats or any hateful language or attitudes towards Quinn. I couldn't care less who she sleeps with or what she did before, during, or after her time working on Depression Quest. I don't really care very much that her on-off lovers gave her some good coverage in gaming press, because it's one small instance of a much larger problem.

What I do care about is people assuming that any criticism of the Quinn scenario, Quinn's actions (like the game jam nonsense), the journalists' actions, or anything Sarkeesian touches amounts to me supporting death threats, hating women, and so on. The venn diagram of these two issues has an extremely narrow overlap point, and yet the "anti" Gamergate community only ever speaks from the circle that has to do with women.

I would also at this point like to clarify that it seems clear to me that Gamergate activists targeted Gamasutra to get ads pulled from their page not because it is led by a woman, but because it is led by an unethical, fanbase-alienating, and generally shitty person.

By unanimously linking death threats and misogyny to anyone involved with Gamergate, detractors have effectively attempted to absolve Alexander, Wu, Quinn,Sarkeesian, and all journalists and other involved parties from any criticism whatsoever, which is ridiculous. I have no interest in pointing out that threats exist on the other side too because it amounts to a "there's male rape too" argument which completely misses the point, but I will say this: Gamergate supporters have gotten up in arms with men just as much if not moreso than with women throughout this entire thing.

Which brings me to my second point: both sides are operating under an egregious false assumption of homogeny. There is no one unifying thought process for Gamergate. It's a mass of tens of thousands of people with varying levels of knowledge on the subject. This ties in with the assumption that all supports of Gamergate are misogynists and supportive of death threats/etc. There was an interesting subreddit analysis that showed that there's about a 15% user overlap between KotakuInAction (the biggest Gamergate community on there) with some of the really shitty anti-women subs like RedPill or MensRights. 15% is a high number for this sort of thing, but it's not like it's anywhere closet o representative of the user group at large.

Likewise, the fact that anti-GG outlets - especially big media outlets that aren't gaming intrinsically, like Business Insider - are appropriating GG actions to gamers at large is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the use of hashtag activism lends itself to the opposition making broad assumptions and generally relating anything to do with the hashtag to its lowest common denominator. That's why I would argue that anyone seriously concerned with journalistic integrity in the industry should be separating themselves from the label, not 'holding the line". It sucks, but bad apples ruin shit like this, EASILY. That's politics.

Finally, while I agree with many of the concerns that Gamergate people have, I find the vast majority of their actions laughably pathetic and childish. If you're upset about the state of the industry, scorching the earth will do nothing but raise a temper tantrum. If you don't like Gawker, Gamasutra, Polygon, and the like, then maybe think about starting your own fucking site. Right now, gamers are patting themselves on the back for getting Mercedes Benz to pull ads from Gawker - not because of Gawker's anti-GG stuff, but because one of their employees tweeted shit about beating up nerds on anti-bullying day.

While I find that objectively hilarious, in the big picture it's just sad. In the end, Gawker is too big to fall to a group of angry gamers, and they'll find another advertiser (if Mercedes doesn't renege their pull-back just like Intel did). The only way that this group can hurt them is by sapping them of viewership, because as long as an audience is clicking the articles, they will continue to practice bad ethics and continue to treat their fanbase like shit. Remember, right now, they havne't lost any support because of what they've said about gamers. No one actually cares.

tl;dr hashtag activism is stupid, i can criticize women without being a misogynist, and gamergate people look like the internet version of occupy wall street with all complaints and no solutions

[Koul]

Another HuffpostLive on GamerGate.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/seg...c90acf2a000a0a


EDIT: Hadn't watched it as of posting. Just finished. Georgina seems to be the only one on the panel that actually knows what GG is up to. The fact that she talked about the Mercedes-Benz deal means she's up on it as that really just happened today.
I have a feeling the guys there have opinions on GG but aren't actually well-educated about it since they keep mentioning Anita and Quinn when GamerGaters are actually currently focused on a huge boycotting effort, lol.

EDIT2: I'm also getting interested in this again because now they are fuckin' w/ people's money. I want to see how this all plays out.

This is the issue right here that I've been trying to explain to a few people. They all think GG is about harassing woman and not letting the poor little flowers into our mud wrestling ring. But that isn't the case. The reason why GG keeps on getting dragged back into the feminism-fray is that the majority of websites are headlining their bullshit articles with that type of shit, so, we have to constantly get back on the defensive and try and correct them. That huffpost video was so annoying "why aren't you talking about it then?" uhh, hey moran. We are. It's shitlords like you who keep bringing it back to feminism.

[Correction]

By unanimously linking death threats and misogyny to anyone involved with Gamergate, detractors have effectively attempted to absolve Alexander, Wu, Quinn,Sarkeesian, and all journalists and other involved parties from any criticism whatsoever, which is ridiculous.

I missed the part where Brianna Wu did did anything but post image macros on twitter.

[Charismatic]

This is the issue right here that I've been trying to explain to a few people. They all think GG is about harassing woman and not letting the poor little flowers into our mud wrestling ring. But that isn't the case. The reason why GG keeps on getting dragged back into the feminism-fray is that the majority of websites are headlining their bullshit articles with that type of shit, so, we have to constantly get back on the defensive and try and correct them. That huffpost video was so annoying "why aren't you talking about it then?" uhh, hey moran. We are. It's shitlords like you who keep bringing it back to feminism.

All that being said, I'd rather see people refocus their efforts on creating a new space that does things as we'd like to see them rather than worry about these boycott efforts.
At least in terms of making a real change. I'm not bothered by the current direction though, I'm getting out the popcorn. One way or another, this is going to entertain.

[Mazmaz]

Anyone who was actually concerned about ethics in gaming journalism would be a lot more focused on crummy AAA titles getting perfect reviews. It is far more dubious how many shitty EA titles get rave reviews on sites they sponsor, and that's being going on forever.

Yet it took a woman banging a bunch of guys to get these people to speak up about this issue. There IS an overlap of the "misogynists" and the "concerned gamers" of Gamergate, and that was Zoe Quinn's sexual life.

[Priran]

Anyone who was actually concerned about ethics in gaming journalism would be a lot more focused on crummy AAA titles getting perfect reviews. It is far more dubious how many shitty EA titles get rave reviews on sites they sponsor, and that's being going on forever.

Yet it took a woman banging a bunch of guys to get these people to speak up about this issue. There IS an overlap of the "misogynists" and the "concerned gamers" of Gamergate, and that was Zoe Quinn's sexual life.

Caring about corruption in dealing with AAA devs and corruption with indie devs is not mutually exclusive.

[Meresgi]

Anyone who was actually concerned about ethics in gaming journalism would be a lot more focused on crummy AAA titles getting perfect reviews. It is far more dubious how many shitty EA titles get rave reviews on sites they sponsor, and that's being going on forever.

Yet it took a woman banging a bunch of guys to get these people to speak up about this issue. There IS an overlap of the "misogynists" and the "concerned gamers" of Gamergate, and that was Zoe Quinn's sexual life.

It was just a catalyst, people gave a shit about her banging random guys because the boyfriend made that post, it would have washed over in a week or so easily had there not been the cover up and wagon circling which lead us to where we are now.

[Correction]

It was just a catalyst, people gave a shit about her banging random guys because the boyfriend made that post, it would have washed over in a week or so easily had there not been the cover up and wagon circling which lead us to where we are now.

Rubbish, they saw an opportunity to pounce on lulz and took it to an extreme and have since backpedaled to a position where they can disown the original slanderfest despite continuing to ride to die with the likes of Adam Baldwin and Milo. The catalyst should have been the wainwright thing but no #GG wants to start the timeline at quinn because ethics.

[Priran]

Wow, raising something like $85,000 between TFYC and the PACER center's anti-bullying charity is quite a fucking length to go to to save face for a movement that exists only for lulz.

[Kuya]

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...0141017?page=4

How a video game fan weathered a misogynist backlash to become pop culture's most valuable critic

She's in Rolling Stones now.

Thanks, GG.

[Correction]

Wow, raising something like $85,000 between TFYC and the PACER center's anti-bullying charity is quite a fucking length to go to to save face for a movement that exists only for lulz.

The only constructive things that have come out of the campaign. Let's not forget that they did the former to spite Quinn, and when they learned that their conspiracy theory about giving the DQ money to charity was...a conspiracy theory some of them tried to pull their donations.