Feminism Thread

**Salodin** · 2014-10-21 11:21

What don't people get? She illustrates her opinion using examples that are by and large examples of women either being empowered, or with women who are npcs with no purpose other then to populate a fake world. She fails to realize this because she's a non gamer commenting on gaming culture. Is there a problem with calling her out on this?

Sure, some games do exactly as she says, but most don't. It's not an epidemic, and even with out discussion on it many of the best devs are moving toward a space where women are more then eye candy. Peach, Samus, even freaking Lara Croft for Pete's sake, and she used to be an example of women done "wrong".

Mankind ill needs a savior such as her.

**Charismatic** · 2014-10-21 11:25

Originally Posted by Salodin

Mankind ill needs a savior such as her.

What is a man? A miserable little pile of misogyny. But enough talk... have at you!

**Ksandra** · 2014-10-21 11:41

Originally Posted by Qalbert

Yeah, that's exactly my point, (not that there really even was a rape plot point) is that she didn't NEED it. She was already becoming a strong character in her fight just to survive on the island in the face of weather, wildlife, gun-toting bad guys, and then mystical shit. There are plenty of ways to make strong characters that don't involve either a) killing a woman they love, or b) having a female character faced with or surviving rape. Not to mention those two scenarios are almost entirely gender specific. I'm sure there are a few exceptions, but I can't think of many female characters who become strong in response to someone killing their boyfriend. Even less male characters getting stronger from rape related situations. Like I said it's just lazy and shows a lack of imagination/effort, it's the 'easy' way to do things. It can be done effectively, in some cases, but more often than not it's just dumb/bad writing.

1 in 4 women experience assault in their lifetime. This shit is something a lot of women experience. It is not lazy to try and make a female character seem like a woman. Or do we only care about realism when it comes to clothes and tits?

**Salodin** · 2014-10-21 11:42

I can always trust you to get the gaming references.

**Qalbert** · 2014-10-21 11:54

Originally Posted by Ksandra

1 in 4 women experience assault in their lifetime. This shit is something a lot of women experience. It is not lazy to try and make a female character seem like a woman. Or do we only care about realism when it comes to clothes and tits?

Jesus christ, just because something happens a lot in real life doesn't mean it's cool to hamfistedly shove it into a video game. I've already said that it CAN be done effectively if it's handled properly, the problem is the way it was originally described before the game came out was "we need to toughen her up, so someone tries to rape her" that's shitty writing. Lots of shitty things happen an alarming amount in real life, that doesn't mean they need to be casually thrown into video games. By your logic a chunk of video game characters would just casually get drunk and beat their wives, or suffer from a crippling drug addiction. These kinds of topics are not off limits, but they need to be handled deftly and thoughtfully, and the way TR was originally described sounded like neither of those which is why people jumped the gun and got upset.

**Kibble** · 2014-10-21 11:56

Originally Posted by Charismatic

You don't need extra context for someone flat out saying "I am not a fan of video games." That's quite literally the whole of the point.
You cannot be a gamer and also not a fan of video games.

Even if you ignore everything I just said here, the annotations link to the full video.
Watch it if you want to, nothing changes. Don't just be lazy like this. It doesn't take much to click a link that is right in your face.

Her presentation is about fandom. So in the context of her presentation she does not believe she qualifies as a fan of video games. You can watch and enjoy Star Trek and not be a Trekkie

Also, I'm not looking at her videos with an agenda of disagreeing with them. I don't immediately jump to anomaly hunting to find things wrong with her. I give her the benefit of the doubt. If you watched any of the 50 minute presentation you'd realize there is context you are missing, but you're so concerned about portraying her as the bad guy that you conveniently miss this.

Edit: I don't really agree with most of what she says in her videos,. I just find most of it so insignificant and meaningless that I can't be assed to care. I'm not a SJW or a GGer, I just find the extremes people go to, on both sides, thoroughly exhausting.

**Qalbert** · 2014-10-21 12:00

At the end of the day, gaming is still first and foremost a means of entertainment. There's room for thoughtful artistic pieces, but using rape as a plot point in your typical big budget AAA game probably isn't 'entertaining' to a lot of women, especially those unfortunate enough to have experienced it first hand in real life, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out something you find problematic or offensive. Tone, context, and genre are key to this, as I've said many times. Like in movies for example, if Loki raped Black Widow in the name of her 'becoming stronger' I would hope no one thinks that's appropriate or good writing.

**Blubbartron** · 2014-10-21 12:03

Originally Posted by Ksandra

1 in 4 women experience assault in their lifetime. This shit is something a lot of women experience. It is not lazy to try and make a female character seem like a woman. Or do we only care about realism when it comes to clothes and tits?

Do people still believe that stat? Every time I've searched for a legit source on it, it's fallen through. It's usually media parroting something that a talking head said, or some lame ass survey from a university where the people giving the survey are re-interpreting the responses of participants to fit their new definition of sexual assault. Stuff that includes sex that was regretted the next day, unwanted attention, etc.

**Charismatic** · 2014-10-21 12:07

Originally Posted by Kibble

she does not believe she qualifies as a fan of video games.

So she's not a gamer.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the rest of your post because I can guarantee you its not relevant to what I was saying (which is simply that she's not a gamer and she admits this). If you want to apply anything else to my post, that's your own doing and not coming from me.

**Penthesilea** · 2014-10-21 12:10

Originally Posted by Qalbert

At the end of the day, gaming is still first and foremost a means of entertainment. There's room for thoughtful artistic pieces, but using rape as a plot point in your typical big budget AAA game probably isn't 'entertaining' to a lot of women, especially those unfortunate enough to have experienced it first hand in real life, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out something you find problematic or offensive. Tone, context, and genre are key to this, as I've said many times. Like in movies for example, if Loki raped Black Widow in the name of her 'becoming stronger' I would hope no one thinks that's appropriate or good writing.

What about all the rape in Game of Thrones?

**Kibble** · 2014-10-21 12:11

Originally Posted by Charismatic

So she's not a gamer.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the rest of your post because I can guarantee you its not relevant to what I was saying (which is simply that she's not a gamer and she admits this). If you want to apply anything else to my post, that's your own doing and not coming from me.

We are arguing semantics about how someone labels themselves at this point. I don't consider myself a gamer, but that doesn't mean I don't play and enjoy video games.

**Charismatic** · 2014-10-21 12:16

Yes, one must argue semantics as it is the foundation of the rest of the argument.
If I say gamer and you say gamer and we mean something different... we miss each other's point.

The term "gamer" in my eyes doesn't necessarily mean someone who is super hardcore at gaming but someone who considers playing video games their primary hobby. She does not.
She also demonstrates that she hardly plays them when she says that she WOULD LIKE to play video games (this implies that she does not) but since they are 'gross' she does not play them.

**AidenCarby** · 2014-10-21 12:19

If I'm gonna do time for rape, it's gonna be on a better looking bitch.

**Qalbert** · 2014-10-21 12:27

Originally Posted by Penthesilea

What about all the rape in Game of Thrones?

a lot of it is problematic because it's an unneeded deviation from the source material that's handled poorly and does a disservice to the characters involved, see last season in particular. again, it's something that CAN be portrayed in an effective and appropriate manner, but far too frequently is used either as cheap justification to drive the plot, or for pure shock value. additionally there's plenty of ways to drive home the idea that the world is a fucked up place without using sexual violence as essentially a bit of scenery to establish the setting. it's a subject matter where, due to the lasting effects on the lives of people who may be watching the show, a lighter touch is likely to be the best route. It's also possible to establish it in a more expository manner without depicting it onscreen.

**Charismatic** · 2014-10-21 12:28

Originally Posted by Qalbert

problematic

Anyone else burst out laughing right here?

**Kibble** · 2014-10-21 12:28

When she says she would like to play video games she's talking about violent ones. Someone who only plays Nintendo releases isn't instantly invalidated as a "gamer" because they don't play Call of Duty and Gears of War.

**Xajii** · 2014-10-21 12:29

Originally Posted by Blubbartron

Do people still believe that stat? Every time I've searched for a legit source on it, it's fallen through. It's usually media parroting something that a talking head said, or some lame ass survey from a university where the people giving the survey are re-interpreting the responses of participants to fit their new definition of sexual assault. Stuff that includes sex that was regretted the next day, unwanted attention, etc.

You must not have many female friends.

**Charismatic** · 2014-10-21 12:29

Originally Posted by Kibble

When she says she would like to play video games she's talking about violent ones. Someone who only plays Nintendo releases isn't instantly invalidated as a "gamer" because they don't play Call of Duty and Gears of War.

This is an assumption that doesn't match what she said. Since it does not fit with her words, I'll have to ask that you prove this assertion.
She said she's not a fan of video games. She said she'd like to play video games. She never said she doesn't play violent video games... if she'd made such a distinction, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

**Qalbert** · 2014-10-21 12:34

Originally Posted by Charismatic

Anyone else burst out laughing right here?

well it is a problem? it legitimately fucks up the development of two characters, and needlessly introduces rape into a scene that in the books was not rape at all. idk how that isn't a problem. perhaps "troubling" would be a better description?

**Kibble** · 2014-10-21 12:36

On my phone and in class, but when she says she would like to play video games, but they're too violent.

She's posted a list with similar sentiments before she started her kickstarter as well. It also explains why the too many dicks remix she shows mostly showcases shooters and violent video games.

http://www.feministfrequency.com/201...-iphone-games/

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