Feminism Thread

[Qalbert]

Kind of still do not care about this. It is far too arbitrary and shortsighted to condemn a game for having a single character or scene that you dislike. People and places that you dislike probably also exist in reality, so why ban them from fiction? I want my heroes stronger, villains more vile, and plotlines more violent than anything I will meet in reality.

Most of us played FFXI. There are a wide range of female characters from Shantotto to mithra to Prishe to Nashmiyeahidontcare. They were varying levels of namblypambly and worthless. Occasionally they were motivated stereotypically. Overall SE avoided making any characters remotely attractive.

Was it a sexist game? Separately, could someone like Anita condemn it as sexist?

You can be critical of something without straight up dismissing/condemning it though, that's certainly my goal. Not my business to say "you can't X" I'm just voicing my opinion as to why X may bother some people and how, perhaps, it could be handled differently.

[NynJa]

People saying havin your cock chopped off isnt considered "rape".

LLLLOOOOOOOLLLLL

[Cantih]

Technically, it isn't.

BUT

Castration/Bobbitting IS equivalent to Female Genital Mutilation. And trying to argue if mutilation is more or less important a thing to care about than rape is a really dumb argument to be having.

[Charismatic]

Just thought I'd share this because Anita's twitter is hilarious.

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/524713524979712000

[Ksandra]

Kind of still do not care about this. It is far too arbitrary and shortsighted to condemn a game for having a single character or scene that you dislike. People and places that you dislike probably also exist in reality, so why ban them from fiction? I want my heroes stronger, villains more vile, and plotlines more violent than anything I will meet in reality.

Most of us played FFXI. There are a wide range of female characters from Shantotto to mithra to Prishe to Nashmiyeahidontcare. They were varying levels of namblypambly and worthless. Occasionally they were motivated stereotypically. Overall SE avoided making any characters remotely attractive.

Was it a sexist game? Separately, could someone like Anita condemn it as sexist?

This is my overall point. They nitpicked without even SEEING what actually happened.

And let's be honest. Everything has been done a million times over. Everything. It comes down to how the overall story is put together not singular events within the story.

If every old TR game had a scene where some dude attempts to rape Lara, and then SE gets a hold of the series and they decide to do a scene where some dude attempts to rape Lara. Then I would understand the criticism of poor writing. But it wasn't. They jumped the gun and that is my big beef. They didn't even take the time to see, they just let their imaginations run wild on what they thought was going to happen.


With that said, I am totally fine with people wanting more female leads or more LBGT leads/presence. I thought it was great that SE decided to allow SSM in FFXIV.
But let Lara and the Witcher and Mario and w/e exist. There is nothing wrong with those games. Just make more other shit to satisfy the consumers. And if you want that other shit to be made, the last thing you do is nitpick games that actually give you the shit you want (aka strong female leads)

[Quicklet]

Just thought I'd share this because Anita's twitter is hilarious.

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/524713524979712000

I don't understand this obsession she and her partner have had with "transformative remix" videos as a way to invoke fair use. His obsession with violence is particularly weird / dogmatic. Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDThHosFS_0

A remixed supercut of violence in 22 LEGO television commercials aired between 2009 and 2012. LEGO's marketing to boys has become progressively more and more violent over the years and now focuses primarily on aggressive conflict and combat play scenarios.

I mean just look at how violent those LEGOs are!

[RKenshin]

Isn't sexual assault categorized/treated similarly to rape? Rape doesn't have to actually have penetration, iirc. I don't really want to start googling the subject at work... but I'm pretty sure the second you touch a woman's parts you can be charged of at least sexual assault.

That being the case, I'm not really sure how you cut off a dude's dick without touching it. Just because he didn't get a BJ before it was chopped off, doesn't mean that it was in no way a sexual issue.

[Qalbert]

This is my overall point. They nitpicked without even SEEING what actually happened.

And let's be honest. Everything has been done a million times over. Everything. It comes down to how the overall story is put together not singular events within the story.

If every old TR game had a scene where some dude attempts to rape Lara, and then SE gets a hold of the series and they decide to do a scene where some dude attempts to rape Lara. Then I would understand the criticism of poor writing. But it wasn't. They jumped the gun and that is my big beef. They didn't even take the time to see, they just let their imaginations run wild on what they thought was going to happen.

As I've said, condemning something before you have the chance to see it, and in context, is stupid, and they should have waited til the game was out and they could see that it had either been removed, or the dev had overstated it. That being said, they didn't "let their imaginations run wild" the dev stated, quite openly, that they included a scene where she was threatened with rape so that you would want to 'protect her'.

"She'll get taken prisoner by island scavengers. And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her.

"She is literally turned into a cornered animal," Rosenberg said. "It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die.""
"When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character,"
"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"

that's not what's in the game, obviously, but the point is that from the moment she arrived injured and alone on the island she has to fight back or die. When she's already literally fighting for her life and the ability to survive, adding the threat of sexual violence, in the way the dev described it, does not in any way further the narrative of her becoming strong and surviving, it just sounds like it's trying to be edgy, and while the reactions were premature, the situation as presented by the dev would absolutely merit the complaints had the game shipped like that. not to mention the absurd notion of "you're not playing as Lara you're protecting her" which essentially makes the player the hero and Lara a damsel in distress. That's not how you make a game about a strong female character learning to survive, that's how you pander to a largely male audience. Fortunately I think based on the game we got this dev was either just really bad at communicating, or stuff changed behind the scenes.

[Ksandra]

I am confused. What the dev described is exactly what happens in the game.

[Corresapolonia]

Why One Male College Student Abandoned Affirmative Consent

After I asked college students and recent grads to comment on California's affirmative-consent law, several different respondents shared a controversial perspective best captured in the email below. The male writer reports that he began college determined to ask women for explicit verbal consent during sexual encounters, but abandoned that approach over time.

Here is his explanation of why:

Dear Conor,

I am a recent graduate, and want to share with you a few of my experiences that I think are illustrative of why the new affirmative-consent laws are out of touch with the reality of the human experience. I hope they can be of some value to the debate.

I was raised by a left-leaning, feminist family who (at least I thought at the time) were relatively open about sex. But while I arrived at college with a healthy respect for women, I was totally unprepared for the complex realities of female sexuality.

“Oh,” sighed one platonic female friend after we had just watched Harrison Ford grab Alison Doody and kiss her is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, “Why don’t guys do that kind of thing anymore? Now days they are all too scared.”

On our second night together, one of my first partners threw up her hands in disgust. “How am I supposed to get turned on when you keep asking for permission for everything like a little boy?” She said. “Just take me and fuck me already.”

She didn’t stay with me for long.

This would be a recurring theme. More than once I saw disappointment in the eyes of women when I didn’t fulfill the leadership role they wanted me to perform in the bedroom. I realized that women don’t just desire men, they desire men’s desire―and often they don’t want to have to ask for it. I also realized that I was in many ways ashamed of my own sexual desire as a man, and that this was not healthy.

At this point I was experiencing some cognitive dissonance with my upbringing, but in time learned to take an assertive lead unless I got a “no” or otherwise thought I was about to cross a boundary as indicated by body language.

One night I ended up back in a girl’s room after a first date (those do happen in college). She had invited me in and was clearly attracted to me. We were kissing on her bed, outer layers of clothing removed, but when my hands wandered downward she said, “No, wait.” I waited. She began kissing me again, passionately, so again I moved to remove her underwear. “Stop,” she said, “this is too fast.” I stopped.

“That’s fine,” I said. I kissed her again and left soon after, looking forward to seeing her again.

But my text messages received only cold, vaguely angry replies, and then silence. I was rather confused. Only many weeks later did I find out the truth from one of her close friends: “She really wanted you, but you didn’t make it happen. She was pretty upset that you didn’t really want her.”

“Why didn’t she just say so then, why did she say we were moving too fast?”

“Of course she said that, you dumbass. She didn’t want you to think she was a slut.”

Talk about confusing. Apparently in this case even no didn’t mean no. It wasn’t the last time I've come across “token resistance” that is intended to be overcome either. But that’s a line that I am still uncomfortable with testing, for obvious reasons.

But I have learned not to ask when it clearly isn’t necessary, or desired.

One of my fondest sexual experiences started with making eye contact across a room, moved to a dance floor, and then to an empty bathroom. Not a single word was ever spoken, because none had to be. We both knew and understood. I was a man and she was a woman, and we found ourselves drawn together in that beautiful way that men and women have been since a time immemorial, a time long before language was ever spoken.

Today in California this would be considered rape. I find that very sad. Women are not infantile. They can make their own decisions about sex, and that includes being able to say no―even if they don’t want to have to say yes.

Regards,

Anonymous

The experiences that this young man had will resonate with some readers. Others will find his descriptions unreliable or his conclusions wrongheaded. Agree or disagree with him, this much is clear: If his attitude persists among a significant number of college students, it will be a huge obstacle to spreading affirmative-consent culture.

[Charismatic]

“Oh,” sighed one platonic female friend after we had just watched Harrison Ford grab Alison Doody and kiss her is Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, “Why don’t guys do that kind of thing anymore? Now days they are all too scared.”

Of course they're scared. You see how many dudes straight up catch a case for this shit? Hell, I ended up in a similar sort of spot w/ a co-worker. I mean, it was determined that I didn't do anything inappropriate but there was still this weird sort of tension afterwards and my approach and outlook on this shit was forever changed. Why shouldn't I be scared? Could get burned at any moment messin' with these broads.
Fucking hell.

Shit is fucking confusing and no pussy is good enough to go to prison for it; that much I guarantee you.

[Salodin]

We're men, we gotta assume all the responsibility while some how showing a woman were willing to fight and take what we want. Women wouldn't understand.

[archibaldcrane]

You aren't going to "catch a case" if you read the situation correctly.

Good luck to you, young men.

[Charismatic]

You aren't going to "catch a case" if you read the situation correctly.

Yeah. Sure.
I'm not stupid enough to believe this when I know that the only thing that got me off the hook in my situation was the fact that I had all of our skype/facebook convos from outside of work logged and brought them in and then proved that they weren't falsified.

[Mazmaz]

Way to conveniently leave off the second page.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...sent/381650/2/

Admin edit: please review the rules on article linking found in section ten of the forum rules.

[Charismatic]

The second page that tries to deny the idea that women often offer token resistance? Oh please.
If you've dealt with women enough you'd know that's absolutely a fact. I don't even know why they are trying to downplay it, the only problem is being able to tell when its more than simply token resistance and you shouldn't ever have to.

Key word: Shouldn't.

[Salodin]

I like how it tries to imply most women want weak little boys in bed, and that the type of women in question is just a small sample.

Doesn't surprise me that the Canadian needs to be told this though. I'm sure this is business as usual for you polite motherfuckers.

[BaneTheBrawler]

just don't turn out the lights, they get scared

[Mazmaz]

cool story chari

[NynJa]

You aren't going to "catch a case" if you read the situation correctly.

Good luck to you, young men.

Lol what? Read the situation correctly? This is the same guy who said "all drunk sex is rape", and now youre saying "no stop" is an invitation "if you read it correctly"?