Feminism Thread

[Lyall]

So if majority of the people follow their upbringings and this makes them unhappy, they will find ways out. Lots of people have before them, and lots will afterwards. Let the independent thinkers find their way to the new ways of thinking.

If the majority follow their upbringings and this makes them happy, why are you trying to force them to change? This is a large-scale "Stop liking what I don't like" kind of thing. There's a collection of people who don't like how some people act so the entire world must change to meet their specification of the "right" way to do things.

Just seems silly. The folks who want out will get out. The folks who don't, won't. I'm not sure why it's that big of a deal, but I guess that's my white-male-cis privilege speaking for me again. I say this as someone who's rejected basically every bit of my upbringing and struck out to find my own way, mind you.

[Gokku]

this is the level of ridiculous yall white knights have hit....

[RKenshin]

Agree with Lyall.

Most of what has been said here certainly is a significant factor in countries that control their populace, the information/news, and most of everything else they're exposed to... but I wouldn't say this is a heavy point of influence at this point in America. Free thinking and decisions/choices are encouraged, information is freely and easily available, and propaganda is easy enough to avoid.

This isn't to say it doesn't still exist and have an effect, but I find it tough to believe that there's all that much serious brainwashing going on (at least not for whether women can also do what men do). It could still use improvement of course, but it's not like we're just a few steps above the Middle East here.

[Abandon]

this thread, lol

[Gokku]

im waiting for the first knight to show up spouting math in schools is a patriarchy's influence since its a subject that was heavily influenced by men historicly, then proceed to tie it into pay inequality in america today...

[hey]

No, he's right, sheeple.

anecdotal evidence: I went to a mostly jewish school, majority of my friends are jewish, my entire family is jewish, I was fucking circumcised for religious reasons, jewish 'law' states that if the mother is jewish then the child is jewish as well (which my friends have repeated to me over and over and over)...yet I dont believe in the existence of any god.

So...? It has still influenced you in great ways. Just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean it had absolutely no effect whatsoever on you. There were also other influences that likely contributed to you not believing in a god. That's why people in places that are generally not so religious are more likely to be atheists even when their parents are religious than in places that are highly religious, like the middle east. It's not that people in such places are less able to think for themselves, they simply have stronger, and more consistent influences.

[NynJa]

So...? It has still influenced you in great ways. Just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean it had absolutely no effect whatsoever on you. (1)There were also other influences that likely contributed to you not believing in a god. (2)That's why people in places that are generally not so religious are more likely to be atheists even when their parents are religious than in places that are highly religious, like the middle east. (3)It's not that people in such places are less able to think for themselves, they simply have stronger, and more consistent influences.

1-yeah, not believing that someone up above is pulling all the strings, because if your life has already been foretold, then are you really living life?
2-surrounded by jewish people growing up, surrounded by jewish family growing up, was circumcised for religious reasons, participated in numerous barmitzvah's for my jewish friends...not religious. Tell me again how people surrounded by religion are likely to be religious?
3-talking about the middle east, where you know, if you dont believe in muhammad or the torah or whatever it is, you're going to be hung, stoned, then have a bullet put through your head. That's not a constant influence, that's a death threat lol.

[Mazmaz]

So if majority of the people follow their upbringings and this makes them unhappy, they will find ways out. Lots of people have before them, and lots will afterwards. Let the independent thinkers find their way to the new ways of thinking.

If the majority follow their upbringings and this makes them happy, why are you trying to force them to change? This is a large-scale "Stop liking what I don't like" kind of thing. There's a collection of people who don't like how some people act so the entire world must change to meet their specification of the "right" way to do things.

Just seems silly. The folks who want out will get out. The folks who don't, won't. I'm not sure why it's that big of a deal, but I guess that's my white-male-cis privilege speaking for me again. I say this as someone who's rejected basically every bit of my upbringing and struck out to find my own way, mind you.

Because it causes 1 in 4 women to be sexually assaulted. Frankly, I couldn't care less about "what makes you happy" as a white cis male. And FYI, you had the privilege of being able to "reject every bit of your upbringing" because the power structures in place are designed to let you do whatever the hell you want in society.

[Salodin]

You justify your pov by using your pov as an example. This doesn't fly anywhere else. I just...idk.

[Penthesilea]

Because it causes 1 in 4 women to be sexually assaulted. Frankly, I couldn't care less about "what makes you happy" as a white cis male. And FYI, you had the privilege of being able to "reject every bit of your upbringing" because the power structures in place are designed to let you do whatever the hell you want in society.

This just in, video games cause women to be raped and sexually assaulted.

[thetruepandagod]

Because it causes 1 in 4 women to be sexually assaulted.

Using unsubstantiated statistics for advocacy is counterproductive.

[Blubbartron]

Using unsubstantiated statistics for advocacy is counterproductive.

Indeed. I, for one, would immediately jump to the feminist's side if there was any good evidence to suggest this claim was even remotely true. Unfortunately, much like the mythical "wage gap", the more you look into it, the more apparent it is that it's bullshit.

[Salodin]

Mythical wage gap? You have my attention; elaborate please.

[Blubbartron]

Mythical wage gap? You have my attention; elaborate please.

When taking into account life decisions made by women, such as whether to have children, degree to pursue, field to pursue, etc, all but around 1.5% of the wage gap vanishes (last I checked).

It's a bit out of date, but was the quickest thing I could find with a rapid Google while I work on the new quests in FF14. Report from 2009, prepared for the U.S. Department of Labor.

Edit:

I should add, here's a nice article summarizing why the 1/5 (or 1/4, as it seems to be getting magically worse over time even though it's all based on the same shit) statistic is bullshit. A pair of criminologists exploring the source of the stat, and explaining why the study is fundamentally and obviously flawed.

[NynJa]

googled (LOLOL GOOGLE RIGHT CORRECTION) "wage gap myth"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ...b_2073804.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...qual-pay-myth/

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ge-gap/276367/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...5f1_story.html
Some bullshit written by some feminist that these other sites completely shit all over

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gend...complete-myth/

[Correction]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christ...b_2073804.html

She misrepresents the CONSAD report, which can be found here.

By cherry picking 'choices' she builds a foundation that women choose to be paid less, when even the report she cites suggests such choices are not volitional, due to a deteriorated social safety net in the United States, which the American Enterprise Institute, where she works, has gleefully tried to dismantle back when they were a farm for George W. Bush cabinet positions.

There are observable differences in the attributes of men and women that account for most of the wage gap. Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent. These variables include:

A greater percentage of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than full-time work.
A greater percentage of women than men tend to leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care. Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of children in the home.

Women, especially working mothers, tend to value “family friendly” workplace policies more than men. Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation, particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.

tl;dr the abhorrent lack of proper parental leave standards for men and women and proper care for the sick and elderly has placed an inordinate amount of pressure on women alone to care for these things. So when they 'choose' to work part time or 'choose' to leave the labor force to care for family members it's not them 'choosing' a lower wage because of some inherent deficiency of their gender. At between 5 and 7 percent, the adjusted gender wage gap is relevant and worth amending. It's not the 23% that Obama ill advisedly parroted but to brush it off as a myth demonstrates an intent to deceive or a complete lack of reading comprehension.

But it's amusing to think that someone has me on their mind now whenever they google something in an attempt to appear educated on a subject.

[Gokku]

[hey]

1-yeah, not believing that someone up above is pulling all the strings, because if your life has already been foretold, then are you really living life?
2-surrounded by jewish people growing up, surrounded by jewish family growing up, was circumcised for religious reasons, participated in numerous barmitzvah's for my jewish friends...not religious. Tell me again how people surrounded by religion are likely to be religious?
3-talking about the middle east, where you know, if you dont believe in muhammad or the torah or whatever it is, you're going to be hung, stoned, then have a bullet put through your head. That's not a constant influence, that's a death threat lol.

Cool. I don't give a shit, this is irrelevant. I'm not going to analyze your life based on incomplete details.

[archibaldcrane]

I don't see why women who choose to have children think they should be paid the same as men...who choose to have children.

Wait

[thetruepandagod]

Paid the same as someone working their same position full time? Or something else?