Feminism Thread

[Thunder]

Privilege = pretty much all luck?

Yes.

Is the point to try and eventually remove privilege so that everyone's treated equally and has the same opportunities? Would hardships/problems be common among all people at that point?

[tyven]

Anyone else think Michael Che's street harassment vs. celebrity-on-the-street joke would've worked in a standup routine or on SNL or anywhere other than in text on the internet?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...ushpmg00000046

Yea, it was structured perfectly for that. Even the apologies. Hope he doesn't get too much heat over this

[Priran]

Is the point to try and eventually remove privilege so that everyone's treated equally and has the same opportunities? Would hardships/problems be common among all people at that point?

Don't be stupid. I'm on my phone so you'll have to google it yourself but the current party line for these types is essentially that being "color blind"/" not seeing race" is racist because people who aren't white deserve revenge/reparations for the crimes of generations past.

[hey]

Is the point to try and eventually remove privilege so that everyone's treated equally and has the same opportunities? Would hardships/problems be common among all people at that point?

Uh, the idea is the make life easier for everyone, not drag others down.

[Kuya]

I think a lot these issues have to do with men being able to put themselves in the position of women. Kind of like how the penthiselea was able to put himself in the position of his girlfriend to understand how upsetting cat calling can be.

Even though i don't think i've ever dealt with harassment to the same degree as a woman, it has probably helped that since i'm in the lgbt community, you can sometimes see this behavior from gay men. For example: there was one guy who texted me for about 9 months straight despite me telling him i wasn't intested anymore (he was too insistent and it was making me uncomfortable, i was apparently right). Almost went to the cops over that.

Most of the cat calling, however, is usually just straight men doing it for the sole purpose of harassment. It seems to be done, usually, in a sarcastic manner. I think the most i've been cat called was during jogging for wearing running tights by what i presume are straight men. There have been less instances of gay men cat calling, but the few times it happened it was during a gay pride parade or a club. \

There was another instance when me and my boyfriend were at a gay beach here in Puerto Rico. I went to take a quick dip in the water and the next thing I know i got a guy tailing me through the water, then I get out, and he's still following me all over the beach. My bf and him got into a very nasty argument.

I think where a lot of gay or bi men might understand women is during online dating. Gay men can be vicious in apps like grindr. Initially I used to respond to every message I got, but eventually It just got exhausting and I only responded to the ones I was interested in. Despite that, it doesn't stop some men from sending you multiple, throughout the span of months, messages asking you questions despite the fact that you've never even answered them. You can get a guy saying hey over and over and over again to you for several weeks. Usually i gotta block these niggas. Another reason why i stopped responding to messages is because sometimes when you turn a guy down they get really really hostile about it. I remember one guy i turned down just absolutely flipped on me. He started saying "yea well, you're not that attractive anyway" and "you look too effeminate".

Gee nigga, then why'd you ask me to fuck you in the first place?

I think the difference is between my experiences and a woman's is that i've rarely felt threatened and mostly just annoyed. The only times where i genuinely felt threatened was when straight guys harass me when i'm jogging due to the running tights i'm wearing (some straight guys seem really incensed about this for some reason). In one instance a couple of guys once followed me around yelling shit at me. That's probably why I mostly jog in a gym now a days.

[Priran]

Wow Kuya, your story about being harassed as a man has really shown me how being harassed is only a problem for women. What a fool I was for thinking this was a human interaction everyone should know how to deal with by the time they call themself an adult.

[Thunder]

Uh, the idea is the make life easier for everyone, not drag others down.

Wasn't going there. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who would disagree with something like that. Let's get honest here, that's not your message - what is it?

Do you want everyone to be treated equally and have the same opportunities in life? Would hardships/problems be common among all people at that point?

[Kuya]

Wow Kuya, your story about being harassed as a man has really shown me how being harassed is only a problem for women. What a fool I was for thinking this was a human interaction everyone should know how to deal with by the time they call themself an adult.

Thanks for being flippant, though

[Priran]

Thanks for being flippant, though

I'm sorry has this human interaction been unpleasant for you? Well then by all means feel free to make a YouTube video about it and characterize it as a major issue of systematic oppression.

[Kuya]

I'm sorry has this human interaction been unpleasant for you? Well then by all means feel free to make a YouTube video about it and characterize it as a major issue of systematic oppression.

So basically, your response to being asked to be more empathetic is to act even more callous? Don't surprised then when you're portrayed as a monster.

[hey]

Do you want everyone to be treated equally and have the same opportunities in life?

Who wouldn't want that?

Would hardships/problems be common among all people at that point?

Ideally no more common than they are for straight white cis able-bodied middle class men now.

[Priran]

So basically, your response to being asked to be more empathetic is to act even more callous? Don't surprised then when you're portrayed as a monster.

If I actually were a terrible person I'd be all about this. People are opportunistic and shitty and maybe instead of trying to rid the world of overt displays of this, milennials should work on their interpersonal skills so they don't end up victims of more insidious acts of opportunistic shittiness. This is slacktivism defined.

[Kuya]

If I actually were a terrible person I'd be all about this. People are opportunistic and shitty and maybe instead of trying to rid the world of overt displays of this, milennials should work on their interpersonal skills so they don't end up victims of more insidious acts of opportunistic shittiness. This is slacktivism defined.

You can and should both teach people interpersonal kills to handle harassment AND shame and ostracize people who harass other human beings. What we shouldn't do is focus our energies on the people on the receiving end of the harassment as if they were largely responsible for the harassment they suffered. Doing that gives harassers the impression they can get away with that kind behavior.

I do wish you had genuinely presented your point of view (like you did just now) rather than flippantly and callously dismiss someone's experience of harassment for two posts in a row, like you did earlier. I think this goes to show that the real chasm within people in this thread who defend feminism and those who oppose is ultimately about empathy. You think people who suffer harassment should "man up" about it, and when they disagree with you, you decide to beat them over the head about it. As if the harassment they suffered initially weren't enough.

It's a shame because I really do think some of you guys have fairly good points, but I think it's your lack of empathy that really undercuts your positions and is ultimately the reason why you loose these arguments.

[Correction]

should work on their interpersonal skills so they don't end up victims

Victim blaming 101

[ronin sparthos]

Can't forget there's the old slippery slope of 'courtship zones', 'men cant talk to women', 'muh freedoms!' and whatever other sludge comes off the griddle of some minds up in here.

Whatever will I do without the catcall in my toolbox of skills?

[ronin sparthos]

Millennials should work on interpersonal skills lol... as if catcalls are a recent invention.

[Meresgi]

Is the point to try and eventually remove privilege so that everyone's treated equally and has the same opportunities? Would hardships/problems be common among all people at that point?

Everyone is always going to have an upper hand or be treated differently then someone else, it won't change until we eventually breed out every minor discrepancy among us all and then ascend into pure energy, and even then someone will be treated differently for not having enough protons or something else. It's very easy to sit around and look at how "lucky" everyone else is because of X and Y and how rough you have it because you're A and B.

Ideally no more common than they are for straight white cis able-bodied middle class men now.

So pretty common

[Charismatic]

If saying hello is catcalling then I wouldn't exactly call it a slippery slope

[Priran]

Victim blaming 101

Sorry, your removal of context and dispensing of thought-terminating cliché doesn't change the reality that trying to change the world to accommodate the sheltered and naïve is breeding a generation of pigeons.

[Meresgi]

If saying hello is catcalling then I wouldn't exactly call it a slippery slope

http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/mount-everest-pictures9.jpg