Feminism Thread

[archibaldcrane]

How does she not point out that Princess Peach is a playable character in, um, Super Mario Bros 2, and is on exactly equal footing as the other 3 playable characters.

Hell, she's arguably the best character in SMB2.

Kids these days...

[Shade]

I did really like this article about the guy who sprite-hacked Donkey Kong for his daughter. It was cute.



http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2013/0...-pauline-hack/


She had just been playing SMB2 as Peach, and so when they started on Donkey Kong, she asked "How can I play as the girl? I want to save Mario!" He told her that she couldn't, and she was sad. So her dad thought about it a bit more, and was like, well, actually, why not? Let's do it.

Although the backlash he got about it from the internet is interesting for a different reason.

In my opinion I feel like we should just try, in the future, to create more opportunities for girls to see themselves as the hero too. And to have varied character types for both sexes bc it's just more interesting.

[Churchill]

First problem is letting your kids play video games.

[Waraji]

First problem is letting your kids play video games.

Yeah! Should be in the kitchen, learning how to make daddy a sandwich.

[Kohan]

First problem is letting your kids play video games.

If no one did that at all, and individuals grew up without being exposed to them, it would decrease the amount of people who grew into adults with the aspiration of working in the related industry. Entertainment is important, and the best examples within it carry elements of art; when you solely rely upon people with no attachment to their respective field, genre, et al, you usually receive a dispassionate, disposable product (a la many casual games currently available today). Even if we were to ignore the artistic angles, their sentiment encourages them, as they grow older, to learn how to participate in the industry—to study design, modeling, programming, production, distribution, or whatever else it is that they find and love.

You can aspire to grow up to be an astronaut, a pilot, a fireman, a police officer, or something that may not sound as grandiose on the surface, like a writer, an artist, or a musician—and the latter three can all be in the videogame industry, if that's what inspires them, and subsequently, if it's where they decide to apply themselves. That's the route I traveled, and when I realize that millions of people have played the games I've been a part of and especially when I attend industry events and see their amazement, I have no regrets.

The most i can say about this video is that she makes an excellent messenger for guys that are already somewhat hostile towards feminism because she sounds feminine and seems to be reaffirming the value of traditional feminine roles.

I cannot agree with this. I believe that the video did a fine job of countering Anita's "points"—if you could call them that—and you agreed, there. However, I believe that she did counter misogyny as well by pointing out how well-respected Peach is. I agree that some women will always be like that—ditzy on the surface, stereotypically feminine, and so on—but just as well, there will always be men who prefer playing football to cracking open a book. Are those men inherently misogynistic? No. They may treat women like queens. They may not be homophobic. They may appear to be a jock, redneck, etc., in every other way, but until they exploit, insult on the basis of gender, or otherwise diminish the value of women, they are a perfectly acceptable member of society.

By pointing out that Peach is beloved, she demonstrates that what may be seen as characteristic flaws are ultimately accepted and not worrisome to the people around her. Her positive traits are beloved, and she is not slandered nor otherwise mistreated. You could say, therefore, that the men of the Mushroom Kingdom are leading by example. Mario is a gentleman who takes off his hat, always acts respectfully, etc., and assuredly, there are plenty of men who enjoy videogames in this world that could learn from that.

As such, I don't believe that she is affirming anything that is to the benefit of misogynists. People who want to view her argument that way will not be changed by it; they would have already held their opinions, and seeing this wouldn't have changed a thing. What will change anything for them, though? Most likely nothing. Meanwhile, those of a more thoughtful mindset—perhaps even that football-loving jock I mentioned earlier—may watch and agree.

Goddamn. With all the fucking typing you're making me do, maybe I should make a Goddamn video.

[Churchill]

Should be doing burpees and pullups

edit: Being a porn actress is also entertainment. If I had children, I'd encourage something besides video games that would be guaranteed to transform into something healthy instead of something they may have aspirations/talent/affinity for.

[Kohan]

edit: Being a porn actress is also entertainment. If I had children, I'd encourage something besides video games that would be guaranteed to transform into something healthy instead of something they may have aspirations/talent/affinity for.

I personally have no problem with the existence of the porn industry, so I don't believe that would be a bad route to take, if someone genuinely wanted to do it. (Being desperate for money and subsequently being exploited is another issue entirely, and obviously not a good situation.) I personally believe that prostitution should be legalized and regulated, and so on, so forth, but that could lead into a long and off-topic discussion, so I'll leave it there.

Enjoying videogames as entertainment in moderation is perfectly acceptable, and I doubt that you would never let your children touch one at all. I agree that it shouldn't be all they're allowed to do. I, personally, absolutely loved sports and other physical activities when I was young. I skated on racing teams and aggressively on streets and in parks, I was on my middle school basketball team, I loved softball and baseball when I was a pre-teen, and I could go on. In terms of technical applications, I studied to become Microsoft certified and to do web design. However, my love for videogames was always the strongest, and as such, that is the industry I am in today.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Games need more choices, is all. Shep or Femshep, etc.

[Churchill]

Why?

Why does someone need to add both sexes as the protagonist? If you want a game where you can save the world as a completely believable strong-independant-woman, then go make it.

I'd like to believe that (and nostalgia for the original) was the crux of the Donkey Kong rage. He may have been wanting to give something to his daughter, and did, but in doing so he messed with something people love(d). There are a multitude of other issues to argue on about in regards to that - knowing why you people rage about stuff on the internet I think it's safe to say that's why people were angry. (Go read the GoT thread for some evidence)

[Ksandra]

Lol @ kids shouldn't play games 'cause it could lead to something bad.

[Kohan]

I personally see the "Donkey Kong" hacking as a case of a father doing something for his daughter, and I see nothing wrong with that. If she specifically liked the mechanics of "Donkey Kong," and wanted the option to be a female player in "Donkey Kong," that is fine. She's a consumer; she can have desires. The father was capable of providing her with something, and he did. He enjoyed the act, and she enjoyed the result. Happiness for everyone, except the Internet—but the Internet didn't need to know.

I personally don't believe it needed to be publicized. I am not offended by its existence in the least, and I would not call it as bad as the video that spawned this thread (by any means), but it is attention-seeking. Games were necessarily simple back when "Donkey Kong" was made; a lack of options was to be expected back then, and not done out of malice nor, as some would choose to imply, misogyny. Hell, it's just a goofy take on "King Kong," which—while it did feature a damsel in distress—had another purpose (much like a lot of old black and white sci-fi films did): showcasing that man can suffer consequences for messing with that which it doesn't understand.

[Shade]

Why?

Why does someone need to add both sexes as the protagonist? If you want a game where you can save the world as a completely believable strong-independant-woman, then go make it.

I'd like to believe that (and nostalgia for the original) was the crux of the Donkey Kong rage. He may have been wanting to give something to his daughter, and did, but in doing so he messed with something people love(d). There are a multitude of other issues to argue on about in regards to that - knowing why you people rage about stuff on the internet I think it's safe to say that's why people were angry. (Go read the GoT thread for some evidence)

How exactly though, does swapping the Princess / Mario "mess with something people love(d)" in a negative way? It's not like the guy went and took everyone's personal copy of DK and changed it. And surely the simple act of "messing with" a classic game is not enough to cause outrage. If someone made a version where Donkey Kong saves a barrel from rolling Marios, wouldn't everybody just laugh?

[Churchill]

Lol @ kids shouldn't play games 'cause it could lead to something bad.

Didn't say that, I said they should have more productive activities fill their days. If you played less games and read more books you might have caught that.

How exactly though, does swapping the Princess / Mario "mess with something people love(d)" in a negative way? It's not like the guy went and took everyone's personal copy of DK and changed it. And surely the simple act of "messing with" a classic game is not enough to cause outrage. If someone made a version where Donkey Kong saves a barrel from rolling Marios, wouldn't everybody just laugh?

Are you new to the internet? He could have made mario a different color and people would have been angry.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I personally have no problem with the existence of the porn industry, so I don't believe that would be a bad route to take, if someone genuinely wanted to do it. (Being desperate for money and subsequently being exploited is another issue entirely, and obviously not a good situation.) I personally believe that prostitution should be legalized and regulated, and so on, so forth, but that could lead into a long and off-topic discussion, so I'll leave it there.

http://youtu.be/gqnhoiv9hT4

[Kohan]

If someone made a version where Donkey Kong saves a barrel from rolling Marios, wouldn't everybody just laugh?

Well, I know what I'm doing when I have some spare time.

[Shade]

Well, I know what I'm doing when I have some spare time.

Don't do it, the internet hordes will rise up against you with death threats and pitch forks!

[Kohan]

As I'll have no shits to give, I'll ignore them and bask in the spectacle that is rolling Marios.

It's been a while since I modded a ROM. Years, actually. Over ten, I think.

[Cairthenn]

Best idea

[Ksandra]

First problem is letting your kids play video games.

Didn't say that, I said they should have more productive activities fill their days. If you played less games and read more books you might have caught that.

One of these things is not like the other.

[Tarage]

I played video games as a kid, and now I program video games.

Fuck your couch nigga.