Feminism Thread

[Priran]

i didnt, it just wasnt funny

[Rhinox]

Lena Dunham.


Discuss

[Charismatic]

literally who?

[Rhinox]

Some chick that sexually abused her sister that feminists are Circling the wagons around.

[Qalbert]

idk about that I've seen plenty of (twitter)feminists who are disgusted about it

[Priran]

Lena Dunham.


Discuss

Same story as Jian Ghomeshi and Zoe Quinn. Saying "hey beautiful" is street rape but when somebody within this group of ideologues gets accused of sexual abuse, the rest of the group deploy their mental gymnastics to explain away their misdeeds in the name of "the cause". And then the accused's "believe the victims!/guilty until proven innocent!/no due process for rape!" beliefs vanish in a puff of smoke and they hire a team of lawyers to make sure exactly the opposite of that is the case.

idk about that I've seen plenty of (twitter)feminists who are disgusted about it

That's interesting because I've seen almost nobody who would call themselves a feminist being against Lena Dunham. I've mostly seen "of course she literally called herself a sexual predator, it was a quirky childhood story!" apologists and "she never specifically says that the she was masturbating when she stuck her hand down her pants while lying in bed next to her sister well into her teens" deniers.

[Rhinox]

idk about that I've seen plenty of (twitter)feminists who are disgusted about it

Mainly poc feminists though.

[Correction]

Mainly poc feminists though.

Then quote the feminists who are circling the wagons, because you're really not speaking for the crowd I've heard so far.

[Priran]

Then quote the feminists who are circling the wagons

"lena dunham was only 7 at the time of this one particular story, and in our expert opinion it is normal for 7 year olds to play with their toddler sibling's genitals"

"people are only pointing out that lena dunham sexually abused her sister into her teens because they're afraid of successful women"

"you're not allowed to be upset with lena dunham for abusing her sister because lena dunham has been abused and criticizing victims of abuse for anything is problematic"

[Charismatic]

I googled Lena Dunham (no qualifiers, just her name) and this was one of the first hits.
How accurate of a representation of the situation does this appear to be to those in the know?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...na-dunham.html

[Qalbert]

I can't find it at the moment but someone posted a picture of the part in the book talking about it and it's pretty indefensible. She casually jokes about giving candy to her sister as a bribe being like a sexual predator.

[The Blackrose]

I googled Lena Dunham (no qualifiers, just her name) and this was one of the first hits.
How accurate of a representation of the situation does this appear to be to those in the know?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...na-dunham.html

The Truth Revolt link is what Rhinox is most likely referring to, which is what has been circulating for a bit now.

And I pretty much echo what Qal is saying - its indefensible. In fact, it's down right moronic that you'd put something like that in your own memoirs.

[Lyall]

So it isn't rape if the victim doesn't say it's rape? The last link says it pretty clearly.

"For those who are less familiar with Grace's terminology, this basically means that the power to determine what constitutes sexual abuse rests entirely with the accuser, not with the National Review or the Twittersphere."

I'm running off of the top of my head here, so I expect this'll be a little disjointed. What would have happened if Lena was born Leonard and just casually diddled his one year old sister when he was seven?

A one-year old can't given consent, they literally wouldn't have the infrastructure in place to understand what was happening. Is... Is this rape or not? A lot of the argument here on BG seems to be "No clear, unaltered consent = rape" but that's what happened here. But she was a kid, so it's okay?

The sister doesn't seem to have any ill will about it, so should we just ignore it? There's all these conflicting issues here. Is it sexual misconduct? It should be, given the definitions, but the writer excuses it because it's only up to the victim, I guess?

I'm having difficulty making sense of this, and this isn't even me being snarky or anything. I'm legitimately trying to understand how this particular incident would be categorized. My gut feeling is that it isn't pretending this is all fine and dandy, though.

[Eurell]

What? What are you even asking? Of course fucking a baby is rape. Jesus Christ why does that even need to be said.

No consent = rape

Children can not give consent

[Lyall]

That article says only the victim gets to decide what's sexual abuse, though. Admittedly, I don't know the writer at all. He certainly postures himself as a feminist.

I've got feminists here telling me that it's wrong, and there are writers out there telling me that no, it's fine, I'm a misogynist for thinking otherwise.

Edit, losing track of my own thoughts: If Lena was a dude, would everyone be this chill about admitting to feeling up and exploring a one year old?

[Charismatic]

Edit, losing track of my own thoughts: If Lena was a dude, would everyone be this chill about admitting to feeling up and exploring a one year old?

We all know the answer to that.
Some won't say it for fear of being labelled misogynst but fuck, that word is getting thrown around so much that its beginning to lose all meaning. I don't know what they are so afraid of.

[Andalusian girls]

i dislike Dunham but what she actually did was spread open and look inside her infant sister's vagina when she was a 7 year old girl

to suggest that is molestation or pedophilic behavior is absurd, it is entirely normative behavior for children that age to explore their own genitals, each other's genitals, and the genitals of those around them, including younger siblings. children have always done this, they will always do this.

[Charismatic]

I agree that it probably wasn't any big deal at age 7 but I also agree that if she was of color or male it wouldn't be looked at that way by most people.
Now, keep in mind, there are other things that supposedly occurred like masturbating with her and so on and supposedly Lena was age 17 for that one... old enough to know better.

[Andalusian girls]

ultimately, she squeezed one out while her sister was asleep next to her. sounds more like a horny as fuck teenager doing what horny as fuck teenagers do than child molestation. if people really think every teenager that's jerked off while a sleeping family member was in the room is a child molester, i mean, come on. when we degrade terminology to encompass everything we render it meaningless.

to the first point, agreed. a male would likely be shown less leeway but the outcry would come from activitists seeking to co-opt the narrative to further whatever ideological prism they are superimposing upon a messier and less clearly delineated society, psychologically the behavior is no different.

that male/female perception imbalance is everywhere. Chris Brown was raped as an eight year old boy by a teenage girl and the world's collective reaction was "niiiiice". consider the reaction the world has when an eight year old girl is deflowered by a post-pubescent boy.

[Priran]

wow you're right Chris Brown is so lucky he was a boy when he got raped, nobody should have to go through the trauma of having anybody care about their abuse

also I totally forgot about my bribing children with candy and examining their genitals phase, everyone has those, my b