Feminism Thread

[Charismatic]

So once again, you look at the numbers of people employed and go "that means that women are getting shafted in the tech industry and feminists agree on this fact alone", without even considering to look at the number of female applicants compared to male applicants.

Anyone remember this one?

[SephYuyX]

Nynja, Intel needs hot secretaries, so it's ok if they hire more women.
I know when I worked at Xerox they made sure to do theyre part to hire more women, in fact, it was made sure that any call center operator or secretary was very attractive.

[archibaldcrane]

So once again, you look at the numbers of people employed and go "that means that women are getting shafted in the tech industry and feminists agree on this fact alone", without even considering to look at the number of female applicants compared to male applicants.

If the application ratio of qualified workers is 50 males to 1 female, and the amount of women in the tech industry is 50 to 1, then theres no discrepancy. This is idiots trying to manipulate data to suit their whims so even bigger idiots can eat that shit up whole.

This goes well beyond hiring.

[NynJa]

This goes well beyond hiring.

And thats the bottom line, cause women said so




No seriously, you still havent presented any facts to back this statement up, other than literally "I believe what women say".

[archibaldcrane]

The burden of proof that "sexism is over" is not on me, bro.

[GoggleHead]

You keep dancing around the issue.
What exactly is it that's currently preventing women from entering these fields?

[archibaldcrane]

Their inferiority, obviously.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Stop it, Archi. Either answer the question or explain why you aren't. This bullshit is just annoying.

[Blubbartron]

Their inferiority, obviously.

Making different choices does not make someone inferior any more than choosing XBONE over PS4 makes someone inferior...

Who am I kidding, they're clearly both inferior to PC.

[archibaldcrane]

Ok. Sexism every step of the way is a big part of it.

It's not insurmountable, but it's enough to thin the ranks.

Anyone disagree?

[Mazmaz]

I never really understood cishet men's insistence on denying the experiences of other groups. Do you all think that other groups are just making shit up when they complain about being treated differently/unfairly? Do you all think that other groups are actually inherently just as equal to cishet men?

[Blubbartron]

I never really understood cishet men's insistence on denying the experiences of other groups. Do you all think that other groups are just making shit up when they complain about being treated differently/unfairly? Do you all think that other groups are actually inherently just as equal to cishet men?

I think that different people are different, and that doesn't make them any more or less than myself. Also, it's important to make the distinction between being treated poorly/unfairly, and not being treated as special. A lot of people fail to make that distinction, and that's yet another reason why relying on anecdotal evidence is a shitty way to determine what problems there are, and how bad they are.

[Karbuncle]

I never really understood cishet men's insistence on denying the experiences of other groups. Do you all think that other groups are just making shit up when they complain about being treated differently/unfairly? Do you all think that other groups are actually inherently just as equal to cishet men?

I think that theres probably a small-to-decent portion of it thats made up. Not always the "make it up" as in make up the entire event/scenario for attention... but "make it up" as in taking a situation out of its context or it being a misunderstanding or difference of comfort zones. I also think that "Cis(ThefuckdoesCisevenmean)" White men are not without the ability to make stuff up too, its something everyone is capable of.

I unfortunately cannot speak for other ethnicity or women, but I can say as a white man, I am no above being fired or discriminated against, or feeling discriminated against even if i am wrong in my perception... I just don't complain because no one would take me seriously, because I'm a white male, and according to most people, we cannot possibly be discriminated against... we're so privileged. (and my bias is showing now, and the reason why I hate these types of movements/groups, because they all paint white men as the devil or the entire source of the problem, so I'm a shitlord for simply existing as nature made me. Never taking at look at themselves, always at someone else to blame, usually "cis" white men, because we're such privileged folk... Right, its such a privilege to be hated by just about every group of people simply for being born a white male...)

And just for the sake of my own curiosity. If pretty much every growing and more largely represented "equal rights" movement out there blames the cis white males for their problems, isn't it then the cis white men who become the oppressed? When does the table turn? Does my feeling blamed and hated for existing as a while male just not count?

[Charismatic]

I never really understood cishet men's insistence on denying the experiences of other groups. Do you all think that other groups are just making shit up when they complain about being treated differently/unfairly? Do you all think that other groups are actually inherently just as equal to cishet men?

I do not just 'listen and believe'. "Trust, but verify."
Unfortunately, there is no way to verify that women (generally speaking) are being kept out of STEM simply because they are women.

For that reason, there will always be at least a tiny bit of skepticism. I dunno about you, but that's how I tend to be when anyone (regardless of who they are) makes an unfalsifiable claim. Is it really so bad that I hold women to the same standard that I hold everyone else to?

[Koul]

I never really understood cishet men's insistence on denying the experiences of other groups. Do you all think that other groups are just making shit up when they complain about being treated differently/unfairly? Do you all think that other groups are actually inherently just as equal to cishet men?

I think a small portion of each and every group makes shit up/exaggerates to complain or bitch. And as such, that causes ripples in a work-force which brings more attention then other members of said group just doing their job. Then when annoyed workers tell friends or family about said shitty person they might go "oh, we have someone who is JUST like that" and then it spreads and stereotypes get made because people justify said stereotypes. A lady friend has similiar issues with [insert demographic] coworkers as I do. She's a woman, therefore you should listen to her. That's how it works, right?

And no, I don't think all other groups are as equal as white men but I also don't think they're as unequal as people make it out to be.

[archibaldcrane]

I see nothing wrong with maintaining skepticism that sexism is the entirety of the reason for gaps in workplace representation.

It's just when people act like it isn't a factor that makes me question whether they live on the same planet as I do.

[hey]

I also think that "Cis(ThefuckdoesCisevenmean)"

cis = cisgender, aka gender matches assigned sex.
het = heterosexual, aka they are attarcted to people of the opposite sex.
cishet = cisgender heterosexual, aka they are both cisgender and heterosexual.

Hope that clears things up.

[Penthesilea]

So wait, I thought it was white, cis, male scum? Are black men doing okay in STEM?

[Mazmaz]

I think that theres probably a small-to-decent portion of it thats made up. Not always the "make it up" as in make up the entire event/scenario for attention... but "make it up" as in taking a situation out of its context or it being a misunderstanding or difference of comfort zones. I also think that "Cis(ThefuckdoesCisevenmean)" White men are not without the ability to make stuff up too, its something everyone is capable of.

I unfortunately cannot speak for other ethnicity or women, but I can say as a white man, I am no above being fired or discriminated against, or feeling discriminated against even if i am wrong in my perception... I just don't complain because no one would take me seriously, because I'm a white male, and according to most people, we cannot possibly be discriminated against... we're so privileged. (and my bias is showing now, and the reason why I hate these types of movements/groups, because they all paint white men as the devil or the entire source of the problem, so I'm a shitlord for simply existing as nature made me. Never taking at look at themselves, always at someone else to blame, usually "cis" white men, because we're such privileged folk... Right, its such a privilege to be hated by just about every group of people simply for being born a white male...)

And just for the sake of my own curiosity. If pretty much every growing and more largely represented "equal rights" movement out there blames the cis white males for their problems, isn't it then the cis white men who become the oppressed? When does the table turn? Does my feeling blamed and hated for existing as a while male just not count?

If this is actually how you think, I might as well respond with this picture. Essentially the last paragraph.

[Karbuncle]

If its a hate of the system you people sure have a funny way of Expressing/showing it. All i ever see is the hatred of the Patriarchy and cis white men and their "privilege of existing". Every time i read a post or topic of news article revolving someway around feminism, it always comes back to being the fault of white men and their oppression of them.

That's the information I'm being given anyway. Its probably due to the loudest voices of any group always being the most ignorant and illogical. Which is probably why most people hate it in general. Its hard to change your mind and become a feminist when even other feminist don't like being associated with the word "feminist" due to the loudest of the ignorance among them.

If the message is disliking the system that allows these things, I can see myself behind it, but I just don't see a solution being made toward that end, not yet... but, I do not reject it entirely.