Feminism Thread

[BerenTebogo]

Go on...
My sister and I are only 1 year apart and we're almost 30 yet at no point in time did I have a leg up. (btw, we both work in the tech industry).

Anecdotal, sure. But I haven't seen any instance of girls not being given opportunities so I'm wondering what it is you could be referring to.

Purely anecdotal but I just wanted to throw my hat in the anecdote ring.

Right before xmas a male friend (postal worker) who had picked up extra shifts at Toys R Us posted that a mother was shopping for her daughter and quote "She asked for a bunch of boy toys and legos but I just got her these instead" referring to sundry girly toys.

The stuff does happen.

[Charismatic]

Purely anecdotal but I just wanted to throw my hat in the anecdote ring.

Right before xmas a male friend (postal worker) who had picked up extra shifts at Toys R Us posted that a mother was shopping for her daughter and quote "She asked for a bunch of boy toys and legos but I just got her these instead" referring to sundry girly toys.

The stuff does happen.

At what point does that stop someone from going down a certain career path?
I'm really not seeing the link.

[Teryu]

Legislating mind control over the masses of women clearly.

[BerenTebogo]

Doesn't, but helps shape a persons development.

If instead of playing with legos, building, taking apart, and developing an interest in engineering, she has to do something else. And the pattern continues with the parent, it's not unreasonable to assume the child may just say fuck it.

I think that's a decently foreseeable possibility as an outcome. Definitely not something that can be quantified to any degree.

[thetruepandagod]

They gave me a pink outfit in the hospital when i was born because they ran out of blue, i must be fucked.

[GoggleHead]

I'm saying it's society's fault that tech, stem, engineering, etc isn't part of their dreams to begin with.

STEM: Science, Technology, Engineering and Math

[Charismatic]

Doesn't, but helps shape a persons development.

If instead of playing with legos, building, taking apart, and developing an interest in engineering, she has to do something else. And the pattern continues with the parent, it's not unreasonable to assume the child may just say fuck it.

I think that's a decently foreseeable possibility as an outcome. Definitely not something that can be quantified to any degree.

Right. It can't be quantified to any degree which is at least part of why I do not see it as a decently foreseeable possibility.
There is nothing to suggest that this is the case whereas there is at least some data (while incomplete) that shows that there may be other significant factors at play. Honestly, other than societal pressures to 'listen and believe' I honestly doubt you'd even be suggesting this as there's no basis for it.

[BerenTebogo]

As someone who works in a STEM field, and collaborated with two other STEM fields, and works closely with successful women in the fields daily I will say this:

It's hard to ignore some of the stories I've heard from some of them directly. Some of the crap they've had to overcome, or just outright pale-faced sexism they've had to deal with (like obnoxious questions after presenting at a conference.)

These are women who made it, in spite of it, and many of them are indeed of the opinion that if other women really wanted it they would have stuck it out through the shit like they did. Which may be true. But for all I can see as a man, the shit does appear to be there for them to have to overcome.

My girlfriend, masters in Applied Math, applying for internships and jobs currently, has plenty of stories of her own of crap she's had to deal with. I've personally witnessed the same professor treat her and I differently for no discernible reason, both 3.93+ GPA in all of our majors, both president of the SIAM club at our undergrad at different times, etc.

Is it life-ending and pervasive? I don't know. But the listen and believe isn't removed for me. I get stories from people not looking for sympathy, who are just sharing war stories, who are already wildly successful

Edit: And as most of you know, I'm a high school dropout who turned his life around and succeeded far beyond anyone's expectations. I'm not one to let stuff stand in my way either, so I'm not needlessly sympathizing. Chances are my path to my degree was much harder than almost all of my colleagues, male or female.

[hey]

Go on...
My sister and I are only 1 year apart and we're almost 30 yet at no point in time did I have a leg up. (btw, we both work in the tech industry).

Anecdotal, sure. But I haven't seen any instance of girls not being given opportunities so I'm wondering what it is you could be referring to.

Wow, so when given equal treatment, you both ended up working in tech. Your anecdote doesn't even disagree with me.

At what point does that stop someone from going down a certain career path?
I'm really not seeing the link.

It doesn't stop them, it makes it less likely that they will be interested in it later.

[Charismatic]

Who said we got equal treatment? lol
My sister had barbies, I had video games.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Right before xmas a male friend (postal worker) who had picked up extra shifts at Toys R Us posted that a mother was shopping for her daughter and quote "She asked for a bunch of boy toys and legos but I just got her these instead" referring to sundry girly toys.

barbarian. the worst part is, Lego has the Friends theme which has more typically "girly" kits and whatnot. they're still just as technically interesting as the other themes (minus the more technically advanced ones like UCS and Technic), they just have lots of pastels and the minifigs are more human-shaped than the regular ones. because some kids like pastels and dolls, and they deserve Lego kits too. she could have tried to reinforce her own gender role views AND gotten her kid Lego.

ahem, anyway, carry on.

[hey]

Who said we got equal treatment? lol
My sister had barbies, I had video games.

You did when you said

at no point in time did I have a leg up.

Apparently that wasn't true.

[Charismatic]

u wot m8?
That is not even remotely the same thing.

Do you know what having a leg up means? That means I did not have any advantages.

My assertion is that the way we were treated was not advantageous nor was it disadvantageous when it came to pursuing what ultimately became our interests as far as choosing a career was concerned.

[NynJa]

Playing Super Mario Bros gets you interested in STEM, obvs

[hey]

u wot m8?
That is not even remotely the same thing.

Do you know what having a leg up means? That means I did not have any advantages.

My assertion is that the way we were treated was not advantageous nor was it disadvantageous when it came to pursuing what ultimately became our interests as far as choosing a career was concerned.

Yes, i know what it means. Playing video games as a kid makes it more likely that you would be interested in tech later.

[Charismatic]

Yes, i know what it means. Playing video games as a kid makes it more likely that you would be interested in tech later.

Since you have stated this as fact, I challenge you to prove it.
Let us not forget how popular video games are nowadays and how not-quite-so-popular these jobs we're referring to are.

Also, don't they say that nowadays there's almost parity when it comes to gaming? (I don't believe this for a second, but people keep throwing this 47% number in my face).

[Blubbartron]

Since you have stated this as fact, I challenge you to prove it.
Let us not forget how popular video games are nowadays and how not-quite-so-popular these jobs we're referring to are.

Also, don't they say that nowadays there's almost parity when it comes to gaming? (I don't believe this for a second, but people keep throwing this 47% number in my face).

The parity number comes when you include Farmville players as "gamers".

Also yeah, I'd love to see any kind of study of the sorts of jobs the average Madden bro is likely to go into. There might be some correlations based on preferred game genre, but gaming as a whole? Unlikely, to say the least.

[Milkster]

Yes, i know what it means. Playing video games as a kid makes it more likely that you would be interested in tech later.

I played video games for at least 6 hours daily from the ages of 6 to 16, was apart of my high school's robotics team. I'm working on a degree in Sport's Medicine. I would never want to go into the technology field.

[Mazmaz]

So, what are we looking at for a fix to this? Legislating how companies market their toys toward the different genders? Seperating boys and girls in schools so more young girls will feel comfortable with classes/clubs in the STEM fields?

Part of the great thing about cultural criticism is that a whole generation of people will grow up absorbing the ideas that the status quo is not working, and will raise their children progressively in order for them to raise above cultural standards.

[thetruepandagod]

Also, don't they say that nowadays there's almost parity when it comes to gaming? (I don't believe this for a second, but people keep throwing this 47% number in my face).

Mainly because they are including games like farmville/candycrush when they throw out those statistics.

edit: bleh blub got it