Feminism Thread

[Qalbert]

[GoggleHead]

Poe's Law...

[Ashmada]

I'm not terribly versed in pointless finger-pointing, so I might have this wrong, but I thought that "privilege" (the way those people misuse the word, at least) was something the majority benefited from and minorities suffered of.
Yet, IIRC, 67% of americans are overweight.

Doesn't that mean it should be "fat privilege"?

[BaneTheBrawler]

no. its not about facts, its about perception. the media tends to favor "thin" people, therefore fat people are oppressed.

[Kuya]

It's not the media, it's everyone. Who do fat straight guys want? Thin girls. Who do fat gay guys want? Thin guys.

[Rhinox]

It's not the media, it's everyone. Who do fat straight guys want? Thin girls. Who do fat gay guys want? Thin guys.

do you know any black men?

[Not Kuno]

That tumblr post is actually made sarcastically.

The fact that everyone believes its real is really telling about the sj community, though.

[Kuya]

do you know any black men?

When i said everyone i meant people.

[Charismatic]

That tumblr post is actually made sarcastically.

The fact that everyone believes its real is really telling about the sj community, though.

Yeah, unfortunately it isn't even a stretch at all.
I mean, hell... fembots are raising a storm because of the supposed "rape joke" told during the Killer Instinct presentation.

Holy fuck, it wasn't even a rape joke.

[Kuya]

I like how the guys who hate Anita, help Anita prove her point:

After pop culture critic Anita Sarkeesian attended the Xbox One press conference in LA's E3 trade event, she spoke out on Twitter. "Thanks #XboxOne #E3 press conference for revealing to us exactly zero games featuring a female protagonist for the next generation." No doubt Sarkeesian, who runs feministfrequency.com, was expecting some lively discussion despite writing the truth. What she got was a stream of abuse.

"Shut up". "Hey there! Can you just stop. Stop being retarded and bitchy. No?" "Women don't belong in video games." "What did you expect? Cooking and cleaning games at a console launch?" "Maybe if women were more interesting and capable at life there would be more female led games, like super floral arranger." "Games with female protags don't sell. Maybe if more women started getting into the game market then they would make more, dumbass." Those were just some of the more thoughtful replies. Others accused her of being sexist, of perpetuating a victim culture, of being a "she-bigot" and that she was being childish. Then there were the obscenities and rape gags.

It's no secret that female protagonists in video games are a minority. But it's shocking that when someone points this out to one of the biggest players in the industry, this is the reaction (admittedly, only of some gamers). As Sarkeesian notes on the blog she posted showing some of the missives: "This is … a window into what it's like to be a female video game critic on Twitter." So why does the games industry – and the delightful gamers who responded to Sarkeesian – have such a problem with heroines? And what is going to change it?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...e-protagonists

If we think Anita is a sycophant, can we at least do so without the sexist language so she doesn't end up looking like Joan of Arc?

[Charismatic]

Eh, doesn't paint Anita in a good light at all in my opinion.
Her comment deserves to be lambasted... would be nice if they didn't use her sex in the insults so that people can't try to spin it this way but, eh. It is what it is.

[Ashmada]

It's not the media, it's everyone. Who do fat straight guys want? Thin girls. Who do fat gay guys want? Thin guys.

I thought it wasn't about sexual attractiveness, but about institutionalise discrimination.
"Thin" is such a poor term. It lumps both average-weight people and underweight people together; and I'd bet that, though the former is probably advantaged*, the latter face at least as much, if not more, discrimination than the overweight.

And yes, even on the sexual attractiveness front: do a quick survey in your entourage, see who'd date a plump individual (not morbidly obese) and who'd date an anorexic.
Pretty sure the latter will get much fewer positive answers.


*for now.

do you know any black men?

ALL BLAXX.

[Plow]

And yes, even on the sexual attractiveness front: do a quick survey in your entourage, see who'd date a plump individual (not morbidly obese) and who'd date an anorexic.
Pretty sure the latter will get much fewer positive answers.

so, big but not disgusting vs disgustingly small? apt comparison there...

Games with female protags don't sell. Maybe if more women started getting into the game market then they would make more, dumbass.

I don't see anything wrong with this statement at all. As long as the non-farmville gaming community is like 98% men, games are going to focus on what they want to play.

Duh?

[RKenshin]

so, big but not disgusting vs disgustingly small? apt comparison there...

Eh, can't say I agree that comparing 5'4" women at 85lbs vs 130lbs vs 235lbs+ is somehow more fair of a comparison than 85lbs vs 130lbs vs 175lbs+., for the anorexic vs obesity argument.

235lbs being the low-end of morbid obesity by BMI.

[Charismatic]

I don't see anything wrong with this statement at all. As long as the non-farmville gaming community is like 98% men, games are going to focus on what they want to play.

Duh?

There's definitely nothing wrong with the statement.
http://psychology.wichita.edu/surl/u...videogames.asp

Men are more into games and buy 3x as many games. You'd be an idiot NOT to try to appeal to them if you actually want to make one of those so-called AAA games (which are mainly what people get excited for at E3)

[ronin sparthos]

no. its not about facts, its about perception. the media tends to favor "thin" people, therefore fat people are oppressed.

You don't mean thin, you mean a stylized human body type that is used by the media and paraded among most people as the ideal. The first thought that comes to mind of this 'ideal' American body type for men are the Abercrombie & Fitch models. If you're too skinny (not even talking anorexic, just slim) you're just as likely to get as much shit as someone who's fat and you face the same pressure to mold yourself to the American standard. Fat people are on the chopping block in America because more people are overweight in America than chronically underweight and thus we see shows like Fat Camp, Extreme Makeover: Weight Loss Edition and exercise videos that promise you'll drop the pounds if you do unreasonable amounts of exercise per day.

What's hilarious is how far away Americans are moving from their own ideal standard caused by our own self-destructive food, work. health and lifestyle habits.

[ronin sparthos]

I think the question up for debate is if men can't relate to female protagonists / antagonists.

Games like Metroid, Tomb Raider and the recent Final Fantasy games have had female leads and been successful. It seems that the presentation of women as lead characters determines how the audience receives them and the subsequent chances of success. When Metroid: Other M properly butchered the Samus Aran character, the fan response to the desecration of an iconic female in gaming was swift and characters like Kerrigan have been properly imposing while maintaining a deceptive level of sexuality.

Of course you could flip that around and say the Metroid backlash stemmed directly from the fact that Samus spent large amounts of time outside the suit and portrayed stereotypical female behavior whereas in previous entries Samus was mostly mute or had limited dialogue allowing you to assume the character of Samus.

[Charismatic]

I personally don't think that matters.
If the expectation is that men should be able to relate to female protags (we can) then females should in turn be able to relate to male protags and the whole thing is a wash anyway.

[ronin sparthos]

I personally don't think that matters.
If the expectation is that men should be able to relate to female protags (we can) then females should in turn be able to relate to male protags and the whole thing is a wash anyway.

I mean you could take it even further and inject race into the gaming protagonist discussion cause if we're gonna classify women as an endangered species as titual characters then it'd be ignorant not to point out how whitewashed the world of vidya game leads is. How many games feature black leads? asian leads? hispanics? arabs? Inb4 Onimusha and Prince of Persia lol.

At best you've got your token brown support character in an ensemble cast. Are male audiences not ready for a game where a non-white guy kicks ass without drifting into stereotype territory?

[Charismatic]

You could... but I think the whole thing is pointless.
Not that it matters much, but I just want you to understand that this is coming from the perspective of a black man.

It doesn't even matter to me that there aren't many black protags... what difference would it make?