Feminism Thread

[Charismatic]

Let's focus on you then. If we were to collect the majority of your posts on this forum. What would be the result? Would most of them be about you bitching about feminism or you discussing men's issues?

Yes, talking about men's issues on a site with Kuya, Kohan or archibaldcrane (and others who would make fun of said issues) has yielded so many positive results in the past that I felt it was a wonderful idea to keep doing it.
You wouldn't find them here 'cause there's little place for it but BG isn't the entirety of the internet, my precious snowflake.

[Kuya]

Yes, talking about men's issues on a site with Kuya, Kohan or archibaldcrane (and others who would make fun of said issues) has yielded so many positive results in the past that I felt it was a wonderful idea to keep doing it.
You wouldn't find them here 'cause there's little place for it but BG isn't the entirety of the internet, my precious snowflake.

So we would find more posts about you complaining about feminism than post discussing men' issues. Thank you for being honest.

Feel welcome to discuss men' issues and areas where men are discriminated against in the future. I won't make fun of you. I can't speak for kohan and archi, but i get the feeling they are more likely to make fun of you when you complain about feminism.

Good luck.

[Ksandra]

The difference is though, this is an explicit alliance being made between different groups of people who are often attacked by the same group of people (religious right dickfucks). There is no alliance between mras and feminists, because the former mostly focuses on attacking feminism. Meanwhile, real men's rights activist focus on issues such as parental leave for fathers, equal weight in courts when it comes to who should have child custody, and the harm that traditional male gender norms can have on men's health. Then we have internet mras who just like to bitch about feminists.

Why do we need an explicit alliance to recognize this is both a women and men's issue? What is wrong with individuals recognizing this is a women and men's issue and want others to recognize it? How on earth does ignoring one group help the cause? How does it hurt feminists to say "people in the gaming industry get severe harassment when players disagree" vs. "women in the gaming industry get severe harassment when players disagree"? One is an accurate description, the other is dismissive.

What is wrong with fighting to get it to stop altogether, rather than stop it for just one group of people?

[hey]

I feel like when men complain about harassment it's mostly ALWAYS brushed off and they're laughed at or people sweep it under the rug. I'll try finding them when I get home but there's been articles on kotaku about males being harrassed and bullied via internet trolls and the articles almost always end with "the threats don't seem serious, so no need to worry guys. move along" yet when it's a woman who gets threatened its: "OMG! This poor dainty little flower of a woman got called a slut online. Everyone to her rescue! donate money! protect her at all COSTS!"

Yes, you're right. This is a really big problem in our society. The problem is just so widespread though, i don't even know how you'd go about trying to change it. I would definitely be interested in serious discussion on the matter.

[hey]

Why do we need an explicit alliance to recognize this is both a women and men's issue? What is wrong with individuals recognizing this is a women and men's issue and want others to recognize it? How on earth does ignoring one group help the cause? How does it hurt feminists to say "people in the gaming industry get severe harassment when players disagree" vs. "women in the gaming industry get severe harassment when players disagree"? One is an accurate description, the other is dismissive.

What is wrong with fighting to get it to stop altogether, rather than stop it for just one group of people?

Sometimes it's easier to break something down and focus on one piece at a time. There are many people who are looking to fight to help those who need it the most, all around, and not so many people willing to fight for everyone as a whole.

[Kuya]

Why do we need an explicit alliance to recognize this is both a women and men's issue? What is wrong with individuals recognizing this is a women and men's issue and want others to recognize it? How on earth does ignoring one group help the cause? How does it hurt feminists to say "people in the gaming industry get severe harassment when players disagree" vs. "women in the gaming industry get severe harassment when players disagree"? One is an accurate description, the other is dismissive.

What is wrong with fighting to get it to stop altogether, rather than stop it for just one group of people?

Cool. So now we get to force feminists to address women's and men's issues while mras continue to bitch about feminism. While we're at it, let's force black activists to address the grievances of every ethnic group. Let's also force gay people to address the problems of straight people.

Meanwhile men, straight people, and white people get to sit pretty and let the scrubs do all the work.

You're going to respond by saying that you expect men, and not just women, to fight for men's rights. In theory but that's not how political activism works. If men have issues that they feel they need to address they can organize and then they can form alliances with feminists if that's what they want to do. Women can't talk for men.

This is how activism works and it is how it has always worked. It's pretty ridiculous to suddenly tell feminists they need to also defend men when no other civil rights movement has ever done that nor is any current civil rights group expected to do that. And let me tell you right now: if you tried to tell lgbtt people that they also need to defend the rights of straight people, you'd get laughed out of the room as a homophobic troll.

[Kuya]

I'm sure there's plenty of feminists who say an issue affects both genders. It's common to hear a feminist say that patriarchy hurts men and women. Yet in practice feminists will focus on women, and rightly so. They are feminists after all. And as a man, I'd rather not let feminists define for me what matters to me as a man. Just like i wouldn't go around telling feminists what's important to them because i'm not a woman.

Lgbtt people also say that homophobia harms straight people but in practice lgbt people focus on lgbt issues.

[Meresgi]

lol saw this in random image thread:

Spoiler: show

https://twitter.com/SexyIsntSexist/s...25867073175553

[NynJa]

Cant preach that there is an inequality then admit a problem affects everyone

[hey]

Cant preach that there is an inequality then admit a problem affects everyone

Of course you can. Just because a problem exists for everyone doesn't mean it's equal for everyone.

[Ksandra]

Cool. So now we get to force feminists to address women's and men's issues while mras continue to bitch about feminism. While we're at it, let's force black activists to address the grievances of every ethnic group. Let's also force gay people to address the problems of straight people.

Meanwhile men, straight people, and white people get to sit pretty and let the scrubs do all the work.

You're going to respond by saying that you expect men, and not just women, to fight for men's rights. In theory but that's not how political activism works. If men have issues that they feel they need to address they can organize and then they can form alliances with feminists if that's what they want to do. Women can't talk for men.

This is how activism works and it is how it has always worked. It's pretty ridiculous to suddenly tell feminists they need to also defend men when no other civil rights movement has ever done that nor is any current civil rights group expected to do that. And let me tell you right now: if you tried to tell lgbtt people that they also need to defend the rights of straight people, you'd get laughed out of the room as a homophobic troll.

1. I am specifically talking about the harassment in the gaming industry. Your problem is you want to create a bubble generalization. Saying women should recognize that this is a problem for both does not mean they need to defend men in everything.

2. You are blasting men for trying to gain recognition that it happens to them which is hypocritical. Who are you to say what we should be upset about when you claim you shouldn't say what feminists should be upset about?

3. You just claimed I can't defend men because I am a women which is ridiculous because this isn't a men or woman's issue it's a human being's issue and last I checked I am a human being.

[Kuya]

1. I am specifically talking about the harassment in the gaming industry. Your problem is you want to create a bubble generalization. Saying women should recognize that this is a problem for both does not mean they need to defend men in everything.

2. You are blasting men for trying to gain recognition that it happens to them which is hypocritical. Who are you to say what we should be upset about when you claim you shouldn't say what feminists should be upset about?

3. You just claimed I can't defend men because I am a women which is ridiculous because this isn't a men or woman's issue it's a human being's issue and last I checked I am a human being.

Fuck you're stupid. Half the shit you just said is stuff i didn't mention.

No wonder you're anti feminist.

[hey]

2. You are blasting men for trying to gain recognition that it happens to them which is hypocritical. Who are you to say what we should be upset about when you claim you shouldn't say what feminists should be upset about?

If they are actually trying to gain recognition and not just attack feminists, then they are going about in a terrible way. Telling a feminist "this sometimes happens to men too, so you should stop focusing on women and give us attention too!" is about the worst possible way to gain recognition. No shit it happens to men too, no one has ever claimed it didn't.

[NynJa]

Of course you can. Just because a problem exists for everyone doesn't mean it's equal for everyone.

Just because people (and by people i mean feminists) put said global problem under the microscope and amplify it when it happens to women does not suddenly make the problem inequal. Cherry picking all the "look at all the women this happens to" cherries because it suits your whim will cause other people to point out the rest of the tree thats being ignored.

Women have legit problems that the world needs to address. Tacking on unisex problems like this, "WOMEN in the gaming industry are subject to harassment and rape threats" is just piling on shit that happens to everyone, and when your gripe list is actual legit problems made excessively longer with unisex problems that theyre trying to claim as women problems, or fucking stupid problems like "i was walking down the street and this man LOOKED at me, ive never felt so violated", as i said, it gives the wrong vibe. This isnt asking equality.

[Priran]

I'm sure there's plenty of feminists who say an issue affects both genders. It's common to hear a feminist say that patriarchy hurts men and women. Yet in practice feminists will focus on women, and rightly so. They are feminists after all. And as a man, I'd rather not let feminists define for me what matters to me as a man. Just like i wouldn't go around telling feminists what's important to them because i'm not a woman.

Lgbtt people also say that homophobia harms straight people but in practice lgbt people focus on lgbt issues.

personally, from what I see in twitter and tumblr feminism groups, this is what you hear when feminism is under scrutiny and the wagons are circled. otherwise, the same people who just recited the dictionary definition of feminism at you will say that dictionaries are a tool of the oppressor and if you're a humanist (lit: someone who believes in equality for every single human being) instead of specifically a feminist and/or a sjw then you're a sexist and/or a racist, because white people and men can't have problems because as a whole they're the ones in power.

modern feminism is as much about parity between women and men as north korea is a democratic people's republic. it's much more about revenge and spite than they let on outside their echo chambers.

[Meresgi]

We can all agree that being a white male is just the bees knees, I mean is there anything we can't do?....besides be right in anything we say. oh ho ho

Also we can agree that Twitter is probably the worst media platform ever created in the history of man for anything that actually requires a discussion. Seriously, stop using fucking twitter for anything short of "I had a hamburger kekeke ^_^"

[hey]

personally, from what I see in twitter and tumblr feminism groups, this is what you hear when feminism is under scrutiny and the wagons are circled. otherwise, the same people who just recited the dictionary definition of feminism at you will say that dictionaries are a tool of the oppressor and if you're a humanist (lit: someone who believes in equality for every single human being) instead of specifically a feminist and/or a sjw then you're a sexist and/or a racist, because white people and men can't have problems because as a whole they're the ones in power.

modern feminism is as much about parity between women and men as north korea is a democratic people's republic. it's much more about revenge and spite than they let on outside their echo chambers.

Feminism includes a huge number of different ideologies, some of which are pretty fucking awful. You can't really judge them all by the actions of a small few.

[Koul]

Feminism includes a huge number of different ideologies, some of which are pretty fucking awful. You can't really judge them all by the actions of a small few.

Would you say that the actions of those small few are becoming the loudest voices though? I feel like it is, in regards to gaming at least.

[Charismatic]

modern feminism is as much about parity between women and men as north korea is a democratic people's republic. it's much more about revenge and spite than they let on outside their echo chambers.

I used to believe this too until I learned more about feminism and learned that its always been more about revenge and spite than they let on.

[Priran]

Feminism includes a huge number of different ideologies, some of which are pretty fucking awful. You can't really judge them all by the actions of a small few.

that's like if I said "I don't like republicans because they don't support obamacare" and you said "whoa hey man that's a bit of a strawman, it's only a vocal minority!"


nearly every high-profile feminist, i.e. ones with real degrees writing columns and attracting thousands of followers, has said some variant of "whites are in power so you can't be racist against whites". it's in fucking feminism textbooks.