Feminism Thread

[Waraji]

'how dare she have sex with someone other than her boyfriend, clearly her low moral character undermines her self-identification as a feminist,'

Well I mean, when you quote it out of context sure, but wasn't it originally alleged that she slept with journalists While dating the one boyfriend whom spread the allegations? That would be an acceptable occasion to judge her character.

[Correction]

Well I mean, when you quote it out of context sure, but wasn't it originally alleged that she slept with journalists While dating the one boyfriend whom spread the allegations? That would be an acceptable occasion to judge her character.

If it had any truth to it I guess you could get scandalized, like it was your business or something, but as the original rumors were pulled from thin air and referenced positive reviews that don't exist, it's a shaky foundation at best upon which to build a case that the gaming press is corrupt. And instead of attacking a conservative set of social values that blames gaming for evils, the wagons are circled and the target of ire becomes women who don't act the way we want them to act. But hey, call out an inveterate liar like the InternetAristocrat, get called names by people who earlier want to talk about having a 'rational mind.'

[Correction]

On the subject of #gamergate, another good column has surfaced.

Many of you made the point that the gaming press generally does not adhere to traditional journalistic standards. You have a point. “The standard should be higher,” you told me. I’m inclined to agree.

There are, however, significant distinctions that need to be made, and virtually no I spoke to made them. More than once, I was pointed to the Society of Professional Journalists Code of Ethics or the “10 Absolutes of Reuters Journalism” as a baseline for reform. Some of the standards we find in those are applicable across the board — bans on plagiarism, for example. Others are not.

...

Even when they weren’t being downright skeptical, non-enthusiast publishers tended to be at least agnostic about the value of games in general. When you write for an enthusiast press, though, you’ve already thrown out some measure of objectivity, since it’s assumed that you and your reader already agree that games are worth your time, money and interest.

At the same time, many of you told me that you wanted to see less social criticism in those reviews. If you really think that through, you’ll see that you can’t have it both ways. There’s a deep contradiction imbedded in the notion that, on the one hand, writers shouldn’t be beholden to developers when they review a game, and that, on the other hand, they should avoid criticisms they feel are relevant. Most game publishers don’t want to be criticized for the social prejudices they may have worked into their games. As such, the simple fact that a writer or editor would be willing to publish a social criticism ought to be treated as evidence that the venue is maintaining some independence from the industry on which it reports. Even when it doesn’t interest you, even when you disagree with what’s been said— even if, as some of you expressed, you feel personally affronted on the game’s behalf — you ought to welcome such criticism as a check on the sort of cozy developer/press relationship you’ve called corrupt.

[archibaldcrane]

I just never knew that y'all cared about vidya press that much. The amount of attention this nonsense is getting is incredibly sad.

[ronin sparthos]

I just never knew that y'all cared about vidya press that much. The amount of attention this nonsense is getting is incredibly sad.

Social justice wars rage on.

[NynJa]

If it had any truth to it I guess you could get scandalized, like it was your business or something, but as the original rumors were pulled from thin air and referenced positive reviews that don't exist, it's a shaky foundation at best upon which to build a case that the gaming press is corrupt. And instead of attacking a conservative set of social values that blames gaming for evils, the wagons are circled and the target of ire becomes women who don't act the way we want them to act. But hey, call out an inveterate liar like the InternetAristocrat, get called names by people who earlier want to talk about having a 'rational mind.'

The whitest of knights

[Callisto]

I don't think it's full white knighting to say that who an adult who is not you or someone you're in a relationship with sleeps with on their own time, especially if it's proven that it was not directly in exchange for positive reviews, is none of your business. Bunch of thirsty nerds butthurt that someone they don't know got laid, lol.

[Teryu]

Where was it proven she didn't do it for favors?

[Waraji]

She said she didn't. I don't know thats all the proof I need.

[Penthesilea]

She's still a shitty person for sleeping around on her boyfriend. That said he's a desperate idiot for wanting to crush it in the first place and giving her any of his time after he "found out". Doesn't mean we gotta judge her for wanting to get some D though.

[Correction]

Where was it proven she didn't do it for favors?

She was accused of sleeping with Patrick Klepek (a married man) on the basis of her guesting on bombcast. That accusation doesn't need much debunking.
She was then accused of sleeping with a Kotaku writer in exchange for a positive review. That review doesn't exist.

[Callisto]

She's still a shitty person for sleeping around on her boyfriend.

This is 1) absolutely a fair conclusion to make and 2) not really relevant to her profession, which is the connection everyone tried to make when they got all butthurt about everything. If we want to start tying every shitty thing everyone has done to their previous/current significant others into their job, hope that people are ready to beef up the unemployment system.

[Lyall]

She was accused of sleeping with Patrick Klepek (a married man) on the basis of her guesting on bombcast. That accusation doesn't need much debunking.
She was then accused of sleeping with a Kotaku writer in exchange for a positive review. That review doesn't exist.

It wasn't a review, it was a story on a Game Jam TV show that fell apart blog post written two weeks before the dev in question and the writer started a romantic relationship. Stephen Totilo said that it wasn't a conflict of interest, though, because as we all know, no guy has EVER said nice things about a girl or her work in order to sleep with her. This is irrelevant, though, because Quinn's hardly mentioned in the article outside of identifying her as having been there.

It's entirely possible his commentary was 100% well-intended and pure. The fact he ended up dating her/fucking her/whatever is going to cause that to be under scrutiny, though.

[Callisto]

It was a blog post. An opinion piece. Meaning his opinion, not a review which should be objective, so really I'm stumped as to why it would matter to begin with. If I make a tumblr about how I like my girlfriend, am I required to have it hold up to Reuters standards?

[Lyall]

It was a blog post. An opinion piece. Meaning his opinion, not a review which should be objective, so really I'm stumped as to why it would matter to begin with. If I make a tumblr about how I like my girlfriend, am I required to have it hold up to Reuters standards?

My mistake: It was an article on Kotaku that he got paid to write, but the contents came down to it being an opinionated blog post. Nothing wrong with telling people your friend who you wanna bang is great, but it's shady when there's money exchanged and your tumblr post goes up on the front page of a "news" website. That's the issue.

[Callisto]

There is literally only one form of 'game news/journalism' that aren't opinion pieces, and that's copypasta news releases. Even reviews are expected to have some sort of personal opinion to them, it's literally a person saying "Here is my opinion of this game". If that's not what people want, they should read the Wikipedia entry about the game instead of being butthurt.

[Lyall]

Went and found the article in question and it's scandalous in how neutral and uninteresting it is. Edited my post to reflect that.

Having an opinion in a review is an integral part, you're right, but it dispels the illusion that you're enjoying it for the "right" reasons when we find out the reviewer is pals with the creator. People say nice things about their friends in public if they want them to succeed, and it's difficult to take someone you don't know at their word when they're talking about something like that but are totally unbiased. The "right" thing to do in that case would be to get someone else to review the game.

[Callisto]

I agree that they should strive harder to eliminate conflicts there, but I think your reaction here summed up pretty much my entire point. You looked at what people have been frothing at the mouth over, and your thought was basically 'Oh, that's incredibly benign'; which is why my question the entire time has been what are these kids actually so butthurt about? And why was none of this butthurt brought up this heavily throughout the entirety of the rest of game journalism's history, which has been them pretty much dependent on game developers for revenue.

[Ksandra]

There is literally only one form of 'game news/journalism' that aren't opinion pieces, and that's copypasta news releases. Even reviews are expected to have some sort of personal opinion to them, it's literally a person saying "Here is my opinion of this game". If that's not what people want, they should read the Wikipedia entry about the game instead of being butthurt.

Yeah, but it calls into question your ability to do your work when you like a game, not because you like the game, but you like the dev that fucked you.

Do not get me wrong, I do not agree whatsoever that the attention should be on Quinn. She can fuck whoever, and while I personally think she's a shithead for cheating, her faithfulness is not an obligation she owes me.

However, journalists do have an obligation to their viewers to have integrity. Giving a game a positive review for sex is not it. It doesn't matter if it is an opinion. It's an opinion he is paid to have, and that payment is done on the assumption that he's giving it based on the merits of the game itself.

[NynJa]

She said she didn't. I don't know thats all the proof I need.

Welp im sold, people would never lie to cover their asses.