2012 NHL Offseason Thread: ROCK OUT WITH YOUR LOCKOUT

[Thoronas]

BK do you have a link to the NHLPA offers? I can't find any details and you mention some pretty outrageous elements.

[BadKarma]

BK do you have a link to the NHLPA offers? I can't find any details and you mention some pretty outrageous elements.

The no salary cap thing is from Fehrs conference. The rest is usually from twitter. Lebrun McGuire etc

[Kashka]

'mutually redefined' means that the NHL makes a new definition, and it sits out there until the players cave and accept it. HRR is pretty much right where the players want it, in that it contains pretty much everything that the players would play a part in(gate-driven revenue and tv). I believe the main thing the owners want is to base HRR off of net profit rather than gross revenue, so pretty much the overhead for arena staff/concessions would be paid for by the players.

It's actually pretty likely that the owner's HRR defining offer is sincere. Fehr sued the league claiming the 25 million dollar subsidy from Glendale was part of HRR, and there were other similar HRR issues like that where it really wasn't specifically defined.

As for the league trying to redefine HRR as net profit, there's no way they'd ever get away with that. The owners are estimated to have made around 200 million last year in profit, with the players making 1.6-8 billion. The players are currently getting around 90% of the profits. They'd never be able to sneak something that big.

I've heard the league was specifically trying to be able to claim a portion of luxury boxes as costs and so on, which considering they currently claim 0% of those as costs, makes sense. The way it works now, there's percentages of stuff the league can write off as costs. For example, up to 20% of a beer's value can be written off as a cost. That leaves the remaining part of that split 57% to players 43% to the league. The league is claiming that costs have been exceeding the ceiling values they can write off in some instances, like luxury boxes.

[Palin]

BK do you have a link to the NHLPA offers? I can't find any details and you mention some pretty outrageous elements.

Here you go:

NHLPA 3 options today. First 2: NHL save 800 millions (5% annual revenues) to 1.1 Billion (7,1 annual revenues). 750 mill in the 3rd option.

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS

3rd option: 13% of actual signed contracts will be guaranteed, the 87% will be subject to potential escrow. The escrow would likely be low

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange

MayB 2day got off on wrong foot bc #NHLPA 1st proposal has players getting avg of 54.5% of HRR for first 3yrs? Same as Aug14. #NHL

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange

Second proposal averages about 53.5 % of HRR for the players over first three years. #NHL #NHLPA

There's some reasons to be optimistic though.. despite the rhetoric coming from both sides, silver linings have been leaking out pretty steadily:

Lebrun basically says the players have agreed to 50-50, which is huge. Now the season all comes down to how to preserve current contracts, which is something that theoretically should be able to be done before losing a season.

McKenzie suggests its not so bad:

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Personally, I'll tune out rhetoric and wait to see what next few days brings. Often a difference between public comments/private sentiment.

And more:

Richard Labbé @Richardlabbe:
Am told D.Fehr, on conference call with players tonite, insisted on trying to get a deal done. This is not over yet, folks.

Honestly it sounds like there was miscommunication. It's not really surprising the NHL walked out early when the first 2 proposals had 54% and 53% in the first 3 years. Then the NHL is saying they didn't hear the version of the 3rd proposal Fehr said to the media.

They said they were willing to be flexible with the "make whole" provision in their offer to get the players their full contract value in the first year. I think we'll see some bargaining the next week, hopefully private and not leaked to the media too much.

If you look beyond the posturing, the cornerstones for an agreement are there. There is no longer a gulf separating the two sides. They're in the same ballpark. It's only a matter of time now

[Brill Weave]

If this falls through I will rampage through the streets of Allison Park for no less than 13 minutes. So irritated right now. More irritated at BK than anyone!

[Selamis]

This is all BK's fault, bringing his negativity around these parts.

[Vaspinne]

On the bright side, not only are the insider experts still looking at silver lining, but they do still have till the 25th of this month to iron out a deal and keep a full season. If the "players being okay with 50/50" is true, and Fehr is actually insisting on getting a deal done, then there's hope to be had still!

[Bregor]

If this falls through I will rampage through the streets of Allison Park for no less than 13 minutes. So irritated right now. More irritated at BK than anyone!

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...74/522/7da.gif

(Actually there is, I just love that .gif)

[Brill Weave]

That is amazing. I have no words to describe the level of awesomeness that .gif has attained.

[Callisto]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...7696--nhl.html

I don't even like Lambert but thus is pretty much exactly my stance.

[Brill Weave]

I just want there to be hockey

[Bregor]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1019...ttmang_576.jpg

Scarier than Vincent Price and Christopher Lee lurking behind you.

[Thoronas]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1019...ttmang_576.jpg

Scarier than Vincent Price and Christopher Lee lurking behind you.

Oh man when I get home that face is my new sig pic.

[Brill Weave]

God damn that's creepy lol.

[Kashka]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...7696--nhl.html

I don't even like Lambert but thus is pretty much exactly my stance.

The problem I have with the "the NHL isn't giving any concessions!" line is that the PA hasn't really asked for any or made it clear in any way what they want. The only thing they've really been asking for is the full value of their contracts, which is a little disingenuous since it's inflated 5% from using the escalator in the summer. The number they're asking for is what they would've gotten under the expired CBA this year. That's a squirrely way of extending the old CBA another year in another name. To a certain extent, I wonder what the PA can really ask for. They already have it so good.

I do dislike the fact that the owners are trying to pay less than what they offered though. Ideally there'd be a soft landing going 55% 52% 50% or something with a cap in terms of escrow clawbacks if revenues dip from no preseason/fan ire, or a legitimate annuity set up for players based on lost salary that comes from the owners' pockets instead of future players.

I'd also like to see them change the way the cap ceiling/floor is done. Instead of plus/minus 8 million, have the floor be 12 million under and the ceiling 4 up. That should help the players in the future in terms of not losing anything to escrow in regular years (instead they'd be way more likely to get a check), lowers the floor for struggling/rebuilding teams, and would help curb salary explosions a bit, all while leaving parity intact if not even stronger thanks to it being relatively easier to hit the cap.

[Brill Weave]

The problem I have with the "the NHL isn't giving any concessions!" line is that the PA hasn't really asked for any or made it clear in any way what they want. The only thing they've really been asking for is the full value of their contracts, which is a little disingenuous since it's inflated 5% from using the escalator in the summer. The number they're asking for is what they would've gotten under the expired CBA this year. That's a squirrely way of extending the old CBA another year in another name. To a certain extent, I wonder what the PA can really ask for. They already have it so good.

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

[Wulfgang]

PA needs to accelerate the 50% hit in their schedule to like start of year 4 instead of year 7. Think you probably see a deal if they proposed a 57 > 53.5 > 50 > 50 > etc scenario. Issue is that there will definitely be some escrow / clawbacks, but given GB's statements today, I think you're looking at an entire season of lost salary if you dont take some additional escrow hit.

I miss this thread but I am getting so sick of reading about the lockout and proposal number crunching.

[Brill Weave]

I know Wulfy. It's depressing.

[Richybear]

You know, I'm so pessimistic about this whole thing, that it wouldn't surprise me if they got a deal done, ended the lockout, then Fehr was like "Let's strike, boys!" and we started all over again.

[Brill Weave]

Now I want to pay for Richy's ban.