What's the second job? It's Rune Fencer!

[fantasticdan]

not really, RDM only needs improvement in Enfeebling magic, with stuff that is exclusiv to them. With the new cure-system cureing as RDM shouldnt be a problem at all. As mentioned by Septimus, RDM just needs some potent exclusiv debuffs that do somethign special.

If you think rdm is going to get game breaking enfeebles like amnesia (and have them work well on VW nms and they like), you're an idiot. NMs nowadays have basically infinite TP, things like plague, store TP down aren't going to make any difference, and on the opposite side, they would make mobs/NMs with normal TP gain a complete joke when low-manned.

I think adding debuffs like mdef/matk down, a mega stat down spell (like absorb spells/impact cause), etc. that don't break the bank while still being useful, on top of fixing rdm in other areas is a better way to go. Give it AoE prot/shell/barspells/haste/sleep, buff it's magic skills (IE: dark and elemental), buff it's combat skills and let it wear light melee armor (laugh at melee rdm all you want, but there's no reason it shouldn't be on par with say pld), give it native stun, and nerf the shit out of embrava. Things like that would go a long way towards making the job useful, and a lot less miserable to play, without making it mandatory.

[Byrthnoth]

RDM is still one of the easiest jobs in the game to fix. Make all their buffs single target instead of having some be self-only. Best form of Dia and best DD enhancing magic would give them a clear role anywhere you don't need Cure 5/6. Why SE hasn't done this yet is beyond me.

[Esvedium]

RDM is still one of the easiest jobs in the game to fix. Make all their buffs single target instead of having some be self-only. Best form of Dia and best DD enhancing magic would give them a clear role anywhere you don't need Cure 5/6. Why SE hasn't done this yet is beyond me.

But then people would bitch about having to throw Temper into their buff cycle, which would cut down on their awesome damage output swinging highly out-dated swords while full timing teal sets...

[Timwakefield]

Rtime Mage

[Damane]

If you think rdm is going to get game breaking enfeebles like amnesia (and have them work well on VW nms and they like), you're an idiot. NMs nowadays have basically infinite TP, things like plague, store TP down aren't going to make any difference, and on the opposite side, they would make mobs/NMs with normal TP gain a complete joke when low-manned.

I think adding debuffs like mdef/matk down, a mega stat down spell (like absorb spells/impact cause), etc. that don't break the bank while still being useful, on top of fixing rdm in other areas is a better way to go. Give it AoE prot/shell/barspells/haste/sleep, buff it's magic skills (IE: dark and elemental), buff it's combat skills and let it wear light melee armor (laugh at melee rdm all you want, but there's no reason it shouldn't be on par with say pld), give it native stun, and nerf the shit out of embrava. Things like that would go a long way towards making the job useful, and a lot less miserable to play, without making it mandatory.

Never stated in believing that or even mentioning somethign like that. There is many ways for unique debuffs that can help

[achira]

If you think rdm is going to get game breaking enfeebles like amnesia (and have them work well on VW nms and they like), you're an idiot. NMs nowadays have basically infinite TP, things like plague, store TP down aren't going to make any difference, and on the opposite side, they would make mobs/NMs with normal TP gain a complete joke when low-manned.

Well there's an easy (I think) way around that- just make the easily low-manned mobs immune to those debuffs- I mean that is how they made RDM obsolete in the first place.

I think if they made their gain spells possible to target someone other than themselves, that would be a nice place to start as well.

[Septimus]

RDM is still one of the easiest jobs in the game to fix. Make all their buffs single target instead of having some be self-only. Best form of Dia and best DD enhancing magic would give them a clear role anywhere you don't need Cure 5/6. Why SE hasn't done this yet is beyond me.

But then people would bitch about having to throw Temper into their buff cycle, which would cut down on their awesome damage output swinging highly out-dated swords while full timing teal sets...

Have either of you ever played RDM keeping up a constant cycle of buffs (Refresh and Haste) for long events like Dynamis? Because lord knows I did it for several years, and I don't want to do that fucking shit ever again. You want people to be fucking mechanical buff machines that spend hours on end doing the most repetitive shit known to man. It is degrading and dehumanizing. This isn't about wanting to melee, it is about not doing something incredibly boring for hours on end for days on end for weeks on end for months on end for years on end.

[Byrthnoth]

RDM was my first 75, so the answer is yes! For a while (circa 2006) I was the only Red or Black Mage in my Dynamis shell and was responsible for sleeping everything, killing statues, and buffing my party. Fortunately we had a good WHM or two, so they would help Silence stuff when necessary and would handle most of the healing. Ah the ....good... old days. Minus the fact that it drove me freaking bonkers and I ended up quitting for a month and indirectly killing the shell due to the total lack of sleepers.

I got most of my merits on RDM as well, so that's more pink maging. The thing is, Red Mage has never had another legitimate party role besides playing pink mage. The single target buffs with relatively short durations are annoying, for sure, but they could fix that. The second part of the adjustment would have to be an adjustment to Scholar, to allow all buffs to be Accessioned. Accessioning 3-4 buffs every ~6 minutes with AF3+2 (Temper, Haste, Gain-STR, maybe Enfire or something) really wouldn't be that bad. Beyond that, it would just be healing.

[Septimus]

If RDM is going to be a primary buffing job, the buffs need to have much longer duration to keep Red Mage from being a joyless mechanical buff machine. But with the existence of BRD, COR, and soon GEO, I doubt that this will be the direction for Red Mage. They need to focus on making RDM the premier enfeebling job with unique enfeebles that are actually useful, especially against very powerful monsters if they want the job to have a place in the game. Honestly, I doubt that is going to happen either; I think the job is just going to languish or they are going to do buffs that they think are going to help RDM, but will end up benefiting WHM, BLM, and SCH more marginalizing RDM further.

[Alistaire]

Should give RDM stun and flash. If RDM is the king of enfeebles they should have all of them, whether they're in the enfeebling skill list or not. It wouldn't break the game as it is now, and it'd give rdm some reason to still have divine skill.

[orson]

Stun is dark magic and flash is divine magic neither things Rdm is supposed to excel at. Thematic choices vs good design ya I know but still FF has always been a sucker for theme. So that'll never change I doubt.

Buff duration has always been a big problem in FFXI I think. That's definitely something they could focus on for Rdm is making their buffs stronger and last significantly longer than a Whm's or Sch's. What they could do is make it so they had casting stance that allowed you to keep each individual buff on a single target in alliance. That way it balances not completely eliminating the need for Whms or Schs buffing but provides Rdms that role to significantly aid a few party members by a lot.

[fantasticdan]

Flash is whatever, but RDM excelled at stun for a long time due to fast cast and chainspell. Nowadays, it actually sucks at it due to it's dark magic skill being prohibitively low, and /sch being the subjob of choice (which doesn't even have it). Native stun and increased dark magic skill are extremely warranted.

I think if they made their gain spells possible to target someone other than themselves, that would be a nice place to start as well.

Why in the world would anyone want this over just giving RDM AoE boost spells like WHM? Single target gain spells should be removed from the game if anything, same with single target barspells/prot/shell.

[Gwynplaine]

I think that all the frustration with RDM is justified (speaking as a main RDM), but I'm willing to wait and see what kinds of changes go along with the game, and how these 2 new jobs actually perform. Remember how underwhelming SCH was initially? And there are usually new shifts in trends of gameplay when new expansions switch things up. So for now I'm waiting to see.

[dasva]

While true they have been undermining rdm for years and years now with only the occasional scrap thrown our way. Kinda sad for a job that doesn't really excell in any meaningful way. I think making buffs more reliant on enhancing skill could help especially if it was like base skill so light art tricks couldn't overwrite rdms superiour skill. And yeah being able to naturally AOE all our self only bs without gimping it. I mean seriously SE let me boost my own and only my own chr and give myself lots of double attack that's just what I always wanted.

Also don't think it would be too crazy broken though definitely useful to basically give rdm all the debuffs on the elemental trials.

[D44kpunk]

Have either of you ever played RDM keeping up a constant cycle of buffs (Refresh and Haste) for long events like Dynamis? Because lord knows I did it for several years, and I don't want to do that fucking shit ever again. You want people to be fucking mechanical buff machines that spend hours on end doing the most repetitive shit known to man. It is degrading and dehumanizing. This isn't about wanting to melee, it is about not doing something incredibly boring for hours on end for days on end for weeks on end for months on end for years on end.

if you were bored in dynamis as rdm you were doing it wrong

or maybe i'm just weird, everything else wasn't interactive enough to be any sort of entertaining

[Midnightjade]

Have either of you ever played BRD keeping up a constant cycle of buffs (Refresh and Haste) for long events like Dynamis? Because lord knows I did it for several years, and I don't want to do that fucking shit ever again. You want people to be fucking mechanical buff machines that spend hours on end doing the most repetitive shit known to man. It is degrading and dehumanizing. This isn't about wanting to melee, it is about not doing something incredibly boring for hours on end for days on end for weeks on end for months on end for years on end.

Hey, I hear ya. BRD was the same except you also had to chase retarded melee around when they didn't listen or group, and you had the soloing ability of a paper cutout.

Funnily enough, I don't really play BRD anymore either. Yay.

[Chamaan]

Like everyone else and their momma, I wanna play RUN, I honestly haven't heard anyone being excited for GEO. I dunno how to feel about this magic tank role. It's something I thought the game needed, sure, but what's going to make or break this is going to be how it handles physical damage too. Anything with dangerous nukes is also going to be hitting non-ochain players for 400+ unless they give us a bunch of new mobs that are just fortifications that spam Meteor. If it can't take a punch then this job's going to be stuck tanking Jailer of Love.

[Karbuncle]

It'll probably be good Defensive, But unlike PLD, most of its JA's will be formed toward MDEF.

For instance, Paladin has Sentinel, Rune knight (RNK probably) will have a Sentinel that reduces Magic Damage by 90~100% for a time/decays.

Paladin does have Rampart, which with the buff adds a magic shield (Though it was solely defense for along time) So maybe Rune Knight will get some P.Def buffs as well.

Just feel They'll both be "Paladin" like, Heavily defensive, One will have a stronger focus on Physical Def, the other, Magic Def. Now the problem is, Aegis Paladin can pretty much Cover Magic and Phys defensive with 0 Problems, It makes me question the validity of this job. Paladin was designed with Aegis/Ochain to have both strong physical and Magical defenses, and a lot of updates have been to make PLD's more survivable against Magic enemies (Rampart, Aegis Update, etc)

I'm not going to condemn it or scream OMG RDM IS DEAD NOW(Geo) when i know nothing of the job outside of small teasers and basic information, I'll just be a little skeptical of how it plays out. Look forward to how they handle it.

[Ansems]

Let me guess... You knew about them 3 months ago but you wanted to keep it quiet until SE revealed them themselve, right ?

ha! who ever you are, I love you. srsly redic when people say shit like that.

[Slycer]

If RDM is going to be a primary buffing job, the buffs need to have much longer duration to keep Red Mage from being a joyless mechanical buff machine.

If you are playing RDM as a buffing job and you are in buff machine mode with composure up, assuming you have full AF3+2 and Estoq. Cape, that's 95% duration bonus. i.e. nearly 6 minute haste, etc. It's not that bad. I think it'd be better if haste had a base duration closer to 5 minutes, but it's still not that bad. It's stupid that you're forced to keep composure up, though, that shit gets annoying with recast times.

Regarding stun, a well-geared RDM, possibly with a few merits thrown into dark magic, should not have much problem sticking Stun, even on high end stuff that builds resistance quickly. Apamajas II is one of my recent favorite acquisitions, and strongly recommended for anyone serious about Stun (on any mage job, not just RDM). I'm surprised by how few people have it and/or realize its utility. The trials sound like a pain in the ass, but it didn't really take any longer than a magic damage staff.