What's the second job? It's Rune Fencer!

[Hank]

Would be nice if Rune Fencer could dip into MP as if it was HP, for the Tarus.

[Kaslo]

They better at least make a Runic job ability: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Runic

[fantasticdan]

Regarding stun, a well-geared RDM, possibly with a few merits thrown into dark magic, should not have much problem sticking Stun, even on high end stuff that builds resistance quickly.

The only high tier VW I've brought my RDM too was the ToAU mandragora, and I had stuns getting some resists with a decent setup, (hq thunder staff, haste/FC where I can, macc/skill/int where I can't). I thought it would be a good idea to have my RDM just solo handle stuns, since my recast was low enough, but having 2-3 blms|schs rotate is just much more reliable/practical. I didn't bother trying it on provenance watcher after that experience.

You can drop all your recast gear for skill/macc, and make a thunder macc staff, but the first negates the advantage a RDM had in stunning in the first place, and the second is a massive time sink, that's ultimately only useful for a single spell.

There's really no reason RDM couldn't be bumped up to at least a C in dark magic.

EDIT: As for rune fencer, I'm not sure how useful an "mdef" focused tank could be, even if they fix the enmity system. What would be the point of it compared to an aegis PLD, or even a BLU?

[Septimus]

If you are playing RDM as a buffing job and you are in buff machine mode with composure up, assuming you have full AF3+2 and Estoq. Cape, that's 95% duration bonus. i.e. nearly 6 minute haste, etc. It's not that bad. I think it'd be better if haste had a base duration closer to 5 minutes, but it's still not that bad. It's stupid that you're forced to keep composure up, though, that shit gets annoying with recast times.

Regarding stun, a well-geared RDM, possibly with a few merits thrown into dark magic, should not have much problem sticking Stun, even on high end stuff that builds resistance quickly. Apamajas II is one of my recent favorite acquisitions, and strongly recommended for anyone serious about Stun (on any mage job, not just RDM). I'm surprised by how few people have it and/or realize its utility. The trials sound like a pain in the ass, but it didn't really take any longer than a magic damage staff.

But then you have buffs that require skill (Phalanx II, AoE barspells), so your 5/5 Empyrean set isn't quite as good.

And seven and a half minute long duration haste from SCH...

[Damane]

But then you have buffs that require skill (Phalanx II, AoE barspells), so your 5/5 Empyrean set isn't quite as good.

And seven and a half minute long duration haste from SCH...

yeahhh I tend not to waste stratagems on something like haste unless I am sitting on them (like in nyzul isle when in lamp mode to go up 1 floor). So screw that argument.

RDM is not a weak job by any means, it can excell at almost everything, its just not the best at anything, well ecxept for enfeebs, that got obsolete. RDM is right at the spot where it shoudl be, excell at almost everything, master of nothing. The job just needs 2-3 unique debuffs and maybe 1-2 unique buffs and the enfeebling magic overhaul that is planned and then its ok.
The problem the job is currently facing, is that all the unique keys it offers, arent relevant for endgame. MP is mostly not an issue (hello /sch /rdm 7mp/tic idle set etc. temp items.), debuff dont stick and are worthless because every fight is zerged. Its not a Job problem that it doesnt fit into endgame. Its the endgame design that excluded rdm.
If Voidwatch wouldnt offer any temp items und mobs wouldnt be so blatantly immune to enfeebs, you sure as hell would want to have at least one rdm in a classic tank pt for strong debuffs and refresh.

I really dont understand all that crying about nuke dmg, stuns etc etc. RDM is decent period. Its the endgame design that sux, not the job itself.

[banggugyangu]

Why is this turning into a "Poor RDM" discussion?

On topic: I'm curious as to how the actual abilities end up playing out. If they'll be "en-spell" type effects or something else. The description on the site leads me to believe that the runes might be expendable, perhaps utilized for 2 different abilities each. Seems to me that they'll be used either in a defensive capacity or offensive. Perhaps expending one fire rune for either a "deal fire damage" or "increase fire resistance" type effect.

[fantasticdan]

I really dont understand all that crying about nuke dmg, stuns etc etc. RDM is decent period. Its the endgame design that sux, not the job itself.

A lot of things have changed since 75 and the pre-wotg era other than endgame. SCH didn't exist, BLU wasn't better at nuking, haste/convert weren't subbable, refresh was extremely useful, RDM had unmatched MP endurance, low magic skills didn't have as massive a difference, only RDM could phalanx anyone, etc etc. RDM wasn't just good at enfeebling before, it was good for a lot of things, now it's outclassed in all areas except for slow2/para2/dia3, and just adding a few enfeebles isn't going to make it on par with SCH, even if embrava was flat out removed.

You also have to figure in 3-6 man content that I assume they're going to try to bring back. Would you ever bring a RDM over a SCH for limbus/assault/salvage type events, especially areas with lots of weak mobs? No.

Yes it should excel at enfeebles, and get some new useful ones, but it needs a lot of improvements to be on par with jobs like SCH or BLU. And no, I don't mean it needs to melee like a BLU or nuke as well as a SCH, but it needs to be on the same level as a total package, not just suck in all areas except for a couple of enfeebles.

[LD]

Off Topic, but hold up I haven't played since like the middle of WOG. SCH & BLU are more than just novelties now?

[Taim Meich]

Off Topic, but hold up I haven't played since like the middle of WOG. SCH & BLU are more than just novelties now?

It depends. SCH went from garbage to omg outperforms BLM to garbage again (during Abyssea) then got a very small popularity increase in VW when Helix were still exclusive, then garbage again, and finally, when Embrava became the new win button, popular as hell. Even if being loved for Embrava only is a bit sad, at least the sudden popularity has made some people realize that SCH is also a very very good stunner, heals really well now, and can nuke almost as well as a BLM.


Back on topic, I also was very worried about Rune Fencer when they announced it would be a mdef tank. the idea itself is good, but with the current availability of Aegis (no longer need a LS dedicated to it, etc.), there's more and more PLDs that can cover the mdef tank role perfectly. And, honestly, you don't need that many tanks nowadays. If Rune Fencer is much better offensively than PLD, while maintaining good magic defenses and decent physical defenses, it will work. It can also work if it has a way of similar difficulty/time commitment as getting an Aegis to get their physical defense capabilities on par with a PLD, and has natural MDEF on par with an Aegis PLD. I hope they do it well, but I have my doubts.

[Damane]

A lot of things have changed since 75 and the pre-wotg era other than endgame. SCH didn't exist, BLU wasn't better at nuking, haste/convert weren't subbable, refresh was extremely useful, RDM had unmatched MP endurance, low magic skills didn't have as massive a difference, only RDM could phalanx anyone, etc etc. RDM wasn't just good at enfeebling before, it was good for a lot of things, now it's outclassed in all areas except for slow2/para2/dia3, and just adding a few enfeebles isn't going to make it on par with SCH, even if embrava was flat out removed.

You also have to figure in 3-6 man content that I assume they're going to try to bring back. Would you ever bring a RDM over a SCH for limbus/assault/salvage type events, especially areas with lots of weak mobs? No.

Yes it should excel at enfeebles, and get some new useful ones, but it needs a lot of improvements to be on par with jobs like SCH or BLU. And no, I don't mean it needs to melee like a BLU or nuke as well as a SCH, but it needs to be on the same level as a total package, not just suck in all areas except for a couple of enfeebles.

I repeat again, rdm excells at everything and is master of nothing, ecxept for enfeebs which are poop atm. The job is perfectly there where it should be, ecxept for some unique debuffs and buffs. Period.

[Alistaire]

Off Topic, but hold up I haven't played since like the middle of WOG. SCH & BLU are more than just novelties now?

And BLU got buffed quite a bit in both gear and spell options. Some will argue it's the best DD for a lot of things and it can be far up there when level correction's in your favor.

Edit: oh, but it's still the job that has the highest % of people who just don't play it well.

[banggugyangu]

It depends. SCH went from garbage to omg outperforms BLM to garbage again (during Abyssea) then got a very small popularity increase in VW when Helix were still exclusive, then garbage again, and finally, when Embrava became the new win button, popular as hell.

I'm not a fan of derailment, but this made me lol. How was SCH ever "garbage"? Since its release, SCH has been able to outperform BLM in damage and MP efficiency at the same time when single target nuking. Besides that, SCH is the absolute king in crowd control when it's needed. The one time when SCH fell behind BLM in single target nuking was the small period of time where BLM had blizzard 5 and SCH did not. Where SCH's fallback landed was in the "proc" system for abyssea. SCH had tier 3 and 4 spells and nothing else. Because of that, SCH was rarely brought along for anything in abyssea sans-EXP.

[Rocl]

SCH was garbage before Sublimation/Addendums etc. were added to it.

Do not forgot your roots of terribleness. It makes the success story prettier.

[NynJa]

SCH was a steaming pile of mexican food diarrhea the first year and a half of its creation. Dont try to deny it lol

[dasva]

I repeat again, rdm excells at everything and is master of nothing, ecxept for enfeebs which are poop atm. The job is perfectly there where it should be, ecxept for some unique debuffs and buffs. Period.

No it's very mediocre at everything.

[Septimus]

I repeat again, rdm excells at everything and is master of nothing, ecxept for enfeebs which are poop atm. The job is perfectly there where it should be, ecxept for some unique debuffs and buffs. Period.

So what you are saying is that RDM is a great job that offers a lot to parties, except for the pesky little fact that it actually offers nothing to parties?

While I will agree that it desperately needs unique enfeebling spells (that are actually good and useful, and assuming that they are going to actually overhaul how enfeebling magic works so that RDM could actually land its shiny new spells any monster that isn't trash) and maybe a few AoE party buffs, saying that it is "is perfectly there where it should be" means that the development team will not read any further for your caveat about new spells and not do shit with the job.

[LD]

Sorry to derail, it's just that SCH and BLU were 2 of the 3 jobs I actually liked playing and SCH was the only one I could actually get people to want around. I ain't comin back to this bloody game, it was just nice to hear the jobs became popular. Mainly cuz it means their mechanics may eventually be used in FFXIV (Conj/WHM is already somewhat SCH-like).

Dodging this RDM conversation, thanks.

Lord knows this game needs a new tank. If it blows at launch, it'll probably get fixed up more like SCH than PUP (shit, that reminds me, did they ever shine up that turd?).

[vadre]

Last time I played (like a year ago during abyssea) PUP was in a pretty good place I seem to remember (for that kind of low man content), good damage and gear selection (although still relying on people buying attachments).

I think they recently split up the automaton's casting timers which people have been suggesting for 1938129381923 years too, so that's something. They still need to do something to make the ranged auto build tp effectively at a range, but whatever.

[Taim Meich]

If it blows at launch, it'll probably get fixed up more like SCH than PUP (shit, that reminds me, did they ever shine up that turd?).

Sent you a detailed PUP reply to not derail the thread much.

[Alistaire]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-new-job/page3

"Looking at the name “rune fencer” it is actually not a magic based job, as they will be consuming runes to gain special effects. To give a bit more insight into the actual name, I will share a quick Japanese lesson with you all. Red mage, black mage, and other “mage” jobs utilize the kanji “魔道士” which denotes a mage or wizard-type role. On the other hand, rune fencer in Japanese is “魔導剣士” which uses a slightly different kanji “魔導.” Both are actually pronounced the same way (madou) but are different in the sense that the latter is used to denote more of a sage-type character. With that said, it might seem to overlap with the image of red mage, but it is in fact completely different.

On another note, for all of you who may still be wondering what the main weapon for rune fencer will be, as many has guessed it will be great sword. However, they will still be able to fully utilize one-hand swords as well.

Attack wise, since they are using great sword, we are planning to have them deal higher damage than paladins. As a tank role though, generating higher enmity than your melee and other damage dealers with attacks alone is quite impossible, so we will be looking into other methods to gain enmity.

In regards to their defensive capabilities, as was stated their specialty is magical defense and elemental resistance, but they will not be able to have all resistances enhanced at once and will have to use runes skillfully to enhance themselves.