A closer look at the Amano artwork

[Sagacious Sundi]

Well, in addition to the obvious shiny SMN toy and FF fanservice reasons, avatars have played major roles in the last 3 expansions, so it makes sense for expansion speculation to be about avatars.

Maybe the 8 Dawnmaidens are divided elementally because they draw their power from the 8 elemental avatars, so the statues represent both. Does that make everyone happy? lol

[Souj]

Chicken or the Egg.
Are there 8 elements because there are 8 avatars or are there 8 avatars because there are 8 elements.
Are there 8 basic dawnmaidens because there are 8 elements or because there are 8 avatars.

I don't see how the statues could be anything but the dawnmaidens. Boss Dawnmaiden appears in the platform in Hall of Gods that is right between those 8 robed statues.
Chamber of Oracles, Ro'meave, Hall of Gods, Tu'lia were all built by Zilart. The Zilart had a thing for Promathia and Altana and the Dawnmaidens. The Kuluu were the ones who had a thing for the avatars.

[Spira]

The kuluu only had a thing for the terrestrial avatars because they made a pact with them. The Zilart were the ones who divided the crystals power into the 8 elements we know of. It could have been inspired by the protocrystals, but formally there has never been any connection made between the sleeping gods with any of the old races.

Ill still see the statues as celestials because it's the hall of the gods and is kind of a nod to a lesser pantheon of the world. The Zilart never worshipped Promathia but still erected his statue there lol

[Khamsin]

I would say the elements, and probably dawn maidens, came before the celestial avatars. The celestial avatars were regular people once, having been made into gods for various reasons, based on actions committed during their lifetime. And since they were people once, and not always gods, I'm venturing a guess that such basic things like fire and ice were around before Ifrit and Shiva, especially considering things like Shiva's demise as a mortal (Elvaan?) queen.

[Fereydoon]

I would say the elements, and probably dawn maidens, came before the celestial avatars. The celestial avatars were regular people once, having been made into gods for various reasons, based on actions committed during their lifetime. And since they were people once, and not always gods, I'm venturing a guess that such basic things like fire and ice were around before Ifrit and Shiva, especially considering things like Shiva's demise as a mortal (Elvaan?) queen.

The Tribune articles aren't so much origin stories as origin myths, no? Considering that Elvaan weren't around until after the Zilart, but Celestials are part of the "Old World" before the Crystal split, and have been in slumber since. The Zilart lived in a world where the crystal was already split.

[Spira]

agreed about the tribune articles. the veracity of their articles is questionable and therefore its hard to know for sure if it can be counted as canon.

there is only evidence of one history that has been mentioned in the stories.. that being the Olduum civilization.. which is mostly shrouded in mystery in the Near East. I'd need to pore over Vana'diel's history and rewatch old cutscenes to remember what was said about them.. tho I can tell you, it wasn't much.

That said, the Olduum existed pretty far back in time.. anyone familiar with their timeline?

[Souj]

The Ramuh article mentioned the Olduum.
I think they said there was a sage of Olduum and possibly an (Olduum civilization?) that lived around Buburimoo and they built those glowing green lights that surround the coast of Bubu. The sage then somehow became Ramuh. Or Ramuh was his name or somehting and he gained powers.

edit; http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/The_Hermit_Ramuh
either way, it cannot be considered fact.

[Sagacious Sundi]

agreed about the tribune articles. the veracity of their articles is questionable and therefore its hard to know for sure if it can be counted as canon.

there is only evidence of one history that has been mentioned in the stories.. that being the Olduum civilization.. which is mostly shrouded in mystery in the Near East. I'd need to pore over Vana'diel's history and rewatch old cutscenes to remember what was said about them.. tho I can tell you, it wasn't much.

That said, the Olduum existed pretty far back in time.. anyone familiar with their timeline?

This is all I could find regarding the Olduum timeline:

King of Hearts: AcCOrdiNg to*AhT URhGaN*reSeaRCheRS, tHiS*siTe iS FaR mORe*aNcieNt tHAn*aNy sTRucTUrE*iN MiNdaRTiA.

So they allegedly predate the Crystal Line and Horutoto.

[Priran]

Maybe it's a (comparatively) primitive Zilart civilization? Presumably the Zilart didn't blink into existence with advanced scientific knowledge. That would fit with the Leypoint being a primitive sort of precursor to the Telepoint.

[Spira]

to add on to the obvious shiny SMN toy and FF fanservice reasons.. summons are kind of FF's variation of the whole 'a wizard did it' plot device..

IV, VI, VIII, IX, X, XI, XIII, XIV all have summons playing a significant part of the story.

in XI alone, one avatar or another was responsible for the vanilla story arc, involved in RotZ/CoP story arc, responsible for ToA, responsible for WotG...
you can see how people would figure they'd be involved again somehow

[Draylo]

Can't really expect anything at this point in regards to summons. They threw Atomos/Cait Sith out of nowhere when most people figured the only avatars were the ones on the star chart. My guess is going to be Phoenix though as we haven't seen much of her outside of CoP and shes an important avatar.

[vadre]

Can't really expect anything at this point in regards to summons. They threw Atomos/Cait Sith out of nowhere when most people figured the only avatars were the ones on the star chart. My guess is going to be Phoenix though as we haven't seen much of her outside of CoP and shes an important avatar.

She also showed up in some art from the vanafest amongst the other avatars I believe, so that's probably a good shout.

[Tarage]

One day I'd love to summon her, even as a 2hr. Araisega anyone?

[Guitarman]

I'd take just being able to see it in game.

[Spira]

been catching up on CoP story lately. according to everyone there, the slumbering gods (celestial) are definitely from a time before terrestrials.
they were awake before vana'diel was created and fell into slumber after that.

therefore the tribune articles are all myth, tho they might be based on actual civilizations.

the 5 terrestrials were created when Vana'diel was born, assumingly by Altana herself.
Cait Sith is also created by Altana, but apparently during the Crystal War.

so its highly possible there are other avatars that were created sometime in between.

[Spira]

mispost

[Michelob]

Aren't there 6 terrestrial?

[Fereydoon]

There are five. Phoenix, Fenrir, Bahamut, Carbuncle and Diabolos.

[Septimus]

Each Terrestrial Avatar has a gate in Pso'Xja, five in all. I am trying to look into if each Terrestrial Avatar is linked to one of the Protocrystals. (I remember this from a while ago, but I cannot remember if it is Cannon of Fannon.)

[Sagacious Sundi]

Pretty sure it's just fanon, but the idea was Phoenix = Al'Taieu because its light is the one Galka need, thus the reincarnation connection. Also, Al'Taieu's condition might explain why Phoenix is weakened. The others were just pegged with the nearest mothercrystal:

Carbuncle - Holla (Courage)
Bahamut - Dem (Justice)
Fenrir - Mea (Trust)
Diabolos - Vahzl (Hope)