Final Fantasy XV (still rumor for now)

[Alkar]

SE isn't god. They are wrong. Vaan is not the main character.

What? No, they sure as hell aren't god but they made the damn game so their opinion counts a lot more than anyone else's.
Vaan is the main character, there's no point in even arguing it. He's treated as much even in Dissidia where he got in over anyone else from XII despite having no real reason to be there considering he doesn't even meet Gabranth.
He's also there in Theatrhythm just like all the other main characters of the series. Yes, he's not even important to the plot after the first few hours but it doesn't matter, he's still considered a main and they surely want us to remember that he is.

[Spira]

Vaan is the main protagonist. His actual relevance to the story isn't very big but the story is generally told from his perspective anyway. I believe its a storytelling mechanic that SE likes to use...

FFX and XII are pretty similar in that respect. Yuna is the central character in X and Ashe in XII, but neither story is told from their point of view. The role of the onlooker is also easier to adopt since you aren't expected to know what they're thinking already.

[Tyrath]

I don't agree. Yuna is pretty central to the story. But Tidus took the outsider perspective and went on to become the most important character. Without him, Yuna is nothing. Without him, Yuna would've been just another summoner sacrificed for another short Calm. Tidus was an outsider to the world who came to change everything.

Vaan was an outsider to the story who did absolutely nothing. I think his only contribution was at one point to push Ashe away from thoughts of revenge because he had to go through the same dilemma.

Both of them main characters yes. But Tidus was far more central to the story than Vaan.

[ringthree]

Still assuming VII was the best of the first 7 games...

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Kirin]

From what I remember when XII was first penned by Matsuno, Basch was the actual main character that the story centered around and Ashe and Balthier drove the story forward.

When Matsuno left, Vaan was basically cut and pasted into the forefront to match up with what sold better to Japanese gamers. Basch was relegated back and Ashe and Balthier retained their roles as the characters to advance the story.

So while indeed Vaan is the "face" of FFXII, the "main" character is actually Basch and Balthier/Ashe drive the story. Balthier is the leading man afterall.

[xopher]

^

I swear FF6/7 is the line of demarcation for fans...

Square says 7 is the best one they've made as well. While I disagree, it's the point they're trying to beat.

Yoichi Wada says they cannot remake FF7 until they make a game that surpasses it, and that hasn't happened yet.

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2...asy-vii-remake

[Lucavi]

And it won't happen with the way they're making them these days. XII was their best attempt in awhile, but its not good enough.

[Shade]

All of the really genius people have long since left SE, haven't they? Some brilliant new blood might get them something exciting, at this point... But you can't put someone like that on an FF, not with those budgets.

[Eleven19]

Square says 7 is the best one they've made as well. While I disagree, it's the point they're trying to beat.

Yoichi Wada says they cannot remake FF7 until they make a game that surpasses it, and that hasn't happened yet.

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2...asy-vii-remake

VII is likely such a widespread benchmark because it was the first exposure many fans had of the series. It was the first 3D title as well, the box itself and the images in whatever magazines covered its development/release were incredibly appealing at the time. VI was my first exposure on SNES, that title still stands out as my favorite.

Obviously being in 3D doesn't make or break a title, but I'd guess that's a major factor in why VII is the benchmark. It probably felt more.. approachable? Maybe that's not the right word.

[Spira]

I just think it happened to be the first major breakout RPG that happened to use 3d polygons..

It's like.. Avatar, when it was the first major 3D film available. It really wasn't that great, but it was a new experience to most if not all people and left a strong impact in their minds.

[Tyrath]

Lets not forget it was also one of the only ones that actually did the 3D correctly by filming with 3D cameras and whatnot.

[Kaslo]

I just think it happened to be the first major breakout RPG that happened to use 3d polygons..

It's like.. Avatar, when it was the first major 3D film available. It really wasn't that great, but it was a new experience to most if not all people and left a strong impact in their minds.

If they hadn't seen How to Train Your Dragon in 3D

[Eleven19]

I just think it happened to be the first major breakout RPG that happened to use 3d polygons..

It's like.. Avatar, when it was the first major 3D film available. It really wasn't that great, but it was a new experience to most if not all people and left a strong impact in their minds.

Yeah exactly what I mean. It was such a memorable experience to the people that first got their hands on it. No RPG had really been done quite that way before. Like you said, left a strong impact on their minds.

And, in terms of comparison.. It was a pretty good story, too. In my opinion, at least.

If they hadn't seen How to Train Your Dragon in 3D

Still watch this every time its on a movie channel lol.

[Sho]

FFVII is the benchmark because it's literally the game that brought the love of any Japanese RPG to the masses on a grand scale. In fact, FFVII was the RPG that even started up the European market for RPGs, one didn't exist before it outside of JP importing.

Yes, by that time, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Seiken Densetsu 3, Final Fantasy VI, and Super Mario RPG were out, but none of these games made a massive impact that VII did.

Not only that, it was groundbreaking on a number of venues that people didn't even care to touch:

* First major foray of an RPG into 3D.
* Use of CGI/FMV animations that were first of it's kind in an RPG.
* Excessive use of expletives in character speech.
* Major storyline death of a [beloved] playable character in an RPG. -- This in turn helped to conjure up major emotions in many people that played the game at the time.
* Identifiable protagonist, including major identity crisis.
* Weird/sexual/sensual situations and talk between the characters, including the use of a drag queen plotline to advance the story.
* Love triangle concepts used.
* First use of an African-American inspired party member.
* First major use of horror-esque/graphic scenes/nature in an RPG.
* Popularized turn-based combat (at the time).
* Hours upon hours of side-quests and side stories to undertake.
* First use of grand scale "impossible" monsters to defeat in an RPG (Ruby, Emerald Weapon).

I don't believe FFVII to be the best RPG around, but it definitely is the quintessential benchmark that many RPG makers strive to beat. I believe people look at in the wrong way because they don't see things as if it's 1997-- FFVII was major shit at the time.

P.S.: Ironically, Many ideas and concepts for VII were ripped directly from VI.

[vadre]

Having played all FFs except 5 I'll always maintain that IX was the best, but like many with FF7, 6, 4 etc it was my first JRPG so it had a lasting impact. I did play FF7 shortly afterwards and really didn't find sephiroth to be a very compelling villain, not sure what the fuss is all about there.

Yes, I prefer the guy with the thong, I said it.

Also, fuck racial representation in FF7, 9 had quina representation http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...Quina_Quen.jpg

Edit: As for XV, I'd really like to see it soon but I'll settle for XIII-3 for now if it continues to improve as much as XIII-2 did over the original. I'd rather not see XV till we're within 2 years of it coming out, if that's not the case already.

[Nullibicity]

Where is versus? -_-;

[Sephiroth]

Still assuming VII was the best of the first 7 games...

There's a good reason for that. By the time VI (the main competitor for best in series ) was released here, X was about to be released on the shiny PS2 a few weeks later. Playing a game from two generations ago is never as fun as playing it at the time it was released. While technology and graphics aren't the most important aspect of a game it certainly adds to the experience and I remember how wowed I was by VII when it was released. If I played VII for the first time today I'd probably not get the same experience and I'd think less of it.

I never went back to VI after I was done with X, because it took me like 5 years to finish X due to how much I didn't like it. XII was even out and finished before that. I'm not sure exactly why I hated X so much. The story didn't appeal that much to me and I hated Blitzball. XI probably had a lot to do with why it took so long to finish it too.

It's no good saying I could have imported VI either. I hadn't even heard of RPGs or Final Fantasy before when I bought VII, even had to think hard about whether to spend £35 or whatever it was on that game. New territory for me. I suppose there's no excuse for not trying to get hold of VI after playing VII, but this was the 90s when the internet wasn't as developed.

[hey]

What? No, they sure as hell aren't god but they made the damn game so their opinion counts a lot more than anyone else's.

Says who?

[Uzor]

Having played all FFs except 5 I'll always maintain that IX was the best, but like many with FF7, 6, 4 etc it was my first JRPG so it had a lasting impact. I did play FF7 shortly afterwards and really didn't find sephiroth to be a very compelling villain, not sure what the fuss is all about there.

Yes, I prefer the guy with the thong, I said it.

Also, fuck racial representation in FF7, 9 had quina representation http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...Quina_Quen.jpg

Edit: As for XV, I'd really like to see it soon but I'll settle for XIII-3 for now if it continues to improve as much as XIII-2 did over the original. I'd rather not see XV till we're within 2 years of it coming out, if that's not the case already.

Honestly, I have to agree with this. FFIX is by far my favorite Final Fantasy game, and I adore Vivi.

[Kaeda]

There's a good reason for that. By the time VI (the main competitor for best in series ) was released here, X was about to be released on the shiny PS2 a few weeks later. Playing a game from two generations ago is never as fun as playing it at the time it was released. While technology and graphics aren't the most important aspect of a game it certainly adds to the experience and I remember how wowed I was by VII when it was released. If I played VII for the first time today I'd probably not get the same experience and I'd think less of it.

I never went back to VI after I was done with X, because it took me like 5 years to finish X due to how much I didn't like it. XII was even out and finished before that. I'm not sure exactly why I hated X so much. The story didn't appeal that much to me and I hated Blitzball. XI probably had a lot to do with why it took so long to finish it too.

It's no good saying I could have imported VI either. I hadn't even heard of RPGs or Final Fantasy before when I bought VII, even had to think hard about whether to spend £35 or whatever it was on that game. New territory for me. I suppose there's no excuse for not trying to get hold of VI after playing VII, but this was the 90s when the internet wasn't as developed.

VI was released in the US for SNES as Final Fantasy III, so a good amount of people were able to experience it prior to VII. It was my first (full) Final Fantasy experience (barely played II [IV]), so it is definitely my favorite in the series. I can see why Square uses VII as a benchmark though. Most of my friends consistently point to VII as the holy grail of the Final Fantasy series. For many of them, VII was their first full experience. VII was by no means a bad game in the series, but I just don't think it holds as well as VI.

I was hoping XV would be a return to the ATB system (maybe a refined system from X-2?), but I'll take an enhanced XII battle system if this rumor is true!

PS: IX definitely had some of the most lovable and rich characters in the series. I didn't fully appreciate the game when it first came out, but now when I replay the game, it is definitely one of my favorites.