Violence Against the LGBT Community

[Thunder]

Yes, the person is dead and they don't give a shit why they were killed

but as society WE care about the person who just killed that other person.

[Rhinox]

Even if that's true, it doesn't matter. You are still killing someone.

I'm not arguing semantics with you. Its fucking retarded.

[Thunder]

Why? The killer in your first scenerio thought it was ok to kill people on a whim for their money why is he less of a scumbag than one who keeps because hes bigoted?

Yeah.

The way I rationalize it is bigotry is something that will die and be extinct - shit like religion, gay, lesbian, transexual, etc will be no different than white and black today or if people are still unhappy with that it'll eventually be like european white to another european white. Killing someone for other reasons will prevail forever.

Edit: that doesn't really explain my thoughts, sorry. The point is that bigotry is something that shouldn't happen and that's why I reason that a person who is bigoted is worse than a person who isn't and a bigoted crime is worse than one that isn't

[hey]

Killing people, period; is wrong;

No it's not.

The person is dead and it being more wrong or less wrong is not going to bring the person back to life.

This is not an argument for all killing being equal.

2 is totally the worse human being and should, if we're denoting punishment by jail time, get more jail time than the guy who killed for the wallet, no?

Should he? The law says yes, and it follows that if one crime is worse than another, it should be punished more severely. But should it in this case? I would argue that no, it should not be. The problem is, it's worse only because of his thoughts. While that is normally taken into account when sentencing, and should be, i do not think there should be a separate law that allows an even longer sentence than would normally be possible.

[hey]

I'm not arguing semantics with you. Its fucking retarded.

You're the one who tried to argue that killing someone vs killing someone was apples/oranges.

[Ksandra]

Yeah.

The way I rationalize it is bigotry is something that will die and be extinct - shit like religion, gay, lesbian, transexual, etc will be no different than white and black today or if people are still unhappy with that it'll eventually be like european white to another european white. Killing someone for other reasons will prevail forever

that...is the silliest rationalization I've ever heard.

[Rhinox]

Bigotry has always been and always will be part of human nature. Talk to any Anthropologist or sociologist and they'll tell you the same thing. It's a left over trait that proved useful at one point in human history but has since been obsolete. Now it just exists in everyone whether you choose to accept it as fact or not.

[Rhinox]

You're the one who tried to argue that killing someone vs killing someone was apples/oranges.

It is apples and oranges.

[Thunder]

Yeah, I didn't explain myself very well. I'm gonna go to bed so I wont respond as quickly as some of you, but I do still think that someone committing some crime motivated by irrational hate is worse than someone committing that same crime without the same motivation

[Rhinox]

pretty sure you have to a hate to kill anyone period.

[Tajin]

No it's not.

I agree with Rhinox and I will not waste my time typing so you can nitpick the one scenario I skip, cultivate some common sense and maybe you can have discussions that do not revolve around arguing semantics.

[Churchill]

pretty sure you have to a hate to kill anyone period.

!=not necessarily

[Thunder]

Bigotry has always been and always will be part of human nature. Talk to any Anthropologist or sociologist and they'll tell you the same thing. It's a left over trait that proved useful at one point in human history but has since been obsolete. Now it just exists in everyone whether you choose to accept it as fact or not.

mm, I don't want to get onto semantics with you but I don't think that's very true

Hating because someone's different has been around forever because it keeps a general population busy and takes over a culture. (jamestown v indians) (whites v blacks in US) (whites v jews in EU) (whites v black in france/EU)

But to say that it will always be around? Eh, shades of differences people are hating on each other are getting smaller and smaller. A united culture is getting bigger and bigger. Everyone knows blue jeans, pizza, etc

pretty sure you have to a hate to kill anyone period.

God damn semantics...
do you have to hate someone when you kill them out of self defense? Do you have to hate someone to kill them for their wallet? For their TV

Irrational hate =/= hate, by the way. I will sooner tolerate a women killing her husband because he cheated on her than you killing 12 gays in a bar because they were gay

[fantasticdan]

@thunder

I can see killing someone for a personal motive (say revenge) being less heinous in many cases, but are you really arguing murdering someone methodically for self gain is somehow better than killing someone because of their race/orientation/whatever?

[shepardG]

I wonder ... Who in this thread has ever killed someone?

Other than me

[Thunder]

@thunder

I can see killing someone for a personal motive (say revenge) being less heinous in many cases, but are you really arguing murdering someone methodically for self gain is somehow better than killing someone because of their race/orientation/whatever?

Killing someone methodically for their race/orientation/whatever is worse than killing someone methodically for self gain. I think so, yeah

[Rhinox]

mm, I don't want to get onto semantics with you but I don't think that's very true

Hating because someone's different has been around forever because it keeps a general population busy and takes over a culture. (jamestown v indians) (whites v blacks in US) (whites v jews in EU) (whites v black in france/EU)

But to say that it will always be around? Eh, shades of differences people are hating on each other are getting smaller and smaller. A united culture is getting bigger and bigger. Everyone knows blue jeans, pizza, etc

Tribes of humans around the globe have fought each other for ages. Bigotry was the driving forces behind all of it.

Native Americans, Aztecs, Incas, Mayans.

Chineses, Greeks, Persians, Arabs and Japanese

[Rhinox]

don't get me started on the bigots of today.

[thetruepandagod]

Holy fuck. Are you implying that perpetrators of violence against LGBT people shouldn't be punished more than perps of crimes against the poor cisnormative heterosexual people so as to not offend the SAWCMs? It isn't about specifying that they're crimes against the LGBT community, but that crimes against the LGBT community/minorities are considered more heinous and therefore result in a greater punishment than crimes against the majority! Gee. What a load of SAWCM bullshit that is.

You have all the privilege in the world and that's the box you stand on? You're all fucking nuts.

Hey, why not? I mean, after all, you haven't been targeted because of something out of your control. You haven't been degraded. You haven't been subjected to discrimination in all aspects of your life. I guess the privileged heterosexual people will have to cry and suck it up that they there is something where they don't have the better hand! YOU POOR PEOPLE YOU, LOL.

If you call yourself an ally to trans* people and also say that you won’t consider a relationship with a trans* woman because she either can’t or won’t undergo genital reconstruction surgery, then you’re not an ally.

Hahaha, you're all real pieces of work. Down with the patriarchy, etc. Those of you that enjoy the privilege you have as the majority on this planet, cheers to you & cry more.

This thread has been an adventure....

[Thunder]

Yeah, but aren't many of those people now united(or more united than before with the rest of the world) or off the face of the earth? My point was, and is, that those cultures are losing that bigotry and we're moving towards a one culture

Anyhow, I do see where the other side of the argument is coming from and I'm pretty sure I just hate those who think irrationally (hate because of race/religion/orientation). Does that make my hate irrational? I don't know, but I agree, a scumbag who kills for no reason is the same as the scumbag who kills because their victim was gay or whatever.

And doesn't the law punish hate crimes more than regular crimes? Ie, that scumbag killing for the wallet is worse off than the one who killed because of homophobia. Not saying that's a reason for anything, just a general question